Topic( Locked )

Second Era - Questions and Answers.

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member
Edited by Spadita on 2019-10-29 01:41:49
Hello there,

We have made a compendium of questions/answers from the suggestions and questions received in the Survey.

Disrespectful, repeated or clearly not related suggestions about this Second Era or New Realm possibilities will not be posted. We will keep updating this thread.

Keep in mind this is just an idea, between all of us we can reach the best option for the realm. Every single one of you is being taken into consideration.

Thank you everyone for your participation.

Note: As we were preparing this answers a whole new bunch appeared, we will keep updating the list, including the ones from forums, tickets, and emails.

Note 2: We want to offer our most sincere gratitude to everyone participating in the Survey. Special mention to those who don’t like the idea but are presenting a constructive criticism with respect: thank you.

Suggestions and Questions received from the Survey:

B O M B O C L A T : O O O O O O O

Sure thing!

Opening up all 5-man dungeons so those that can't get into raids can still progress through 5-man's.

We considered something similar when we were planning Algalon some years ago but, we ended up discarding it.
Right now offering another layer of attunement will not help the overall population. We will not consider this for now. Thanks for the input though.

Mix horde and alliances:

We do not agree with this idea, sorry. Maybe in the future, we can discuss it if most of the players want it but, we will try to avoid implementing such thing as much as possible.

Consider rising XP rates or doing more events that increase XP rates so people can take their first steps in the server more easily ; and people can level more alts

We want to keep x1 experience rates in Algalon, although the idea of having some events is a nice approach, as our 6th anniversary event was well received.

I'm worried about bag space, since I'll have all my items in Void Storage, then I'll have duplicates later on when I get the same item, where am I supposed to put all that gear? And what is the purpose of it anyway, because having gear stored means I won't use it anyway the current patch because we'll be 1 raid ahead of the gear I need, so that gear is completely useless and just collects dust in the bank for nothing throughout the time.

Good point. We might need to specify it better through the presentation but, there won't be any duplicated item. When you try to retrieve something from the Vault of Eras it will check if you already have such item first to avoid storing duplicates. The idea of unlocking items from previous tiers is basically to not interfere with the current progression/races and to help those players who return while in the middle of the Second Era (or even for those who progress slower than the rest). Also, current high-end players will be able to have everything they have at this very moment when the time comes.

I would not like to lose all my emblems and gold

We have already updated the presentation about this matter, the currency will be stored and the Gold will not be reduced.

All players will be naked, maybe you can find a solution to this

After many suggestions, we agree to provide a set of greens, so players can jump into dungeons. However, remember that 187 items can be pre-farmed.

Do Not delete items like primos/Orbs, just activate cross faction Dungeons and raids

Also after many suggestions, we have decided to not delete them and those would be stored. We do not really agree with cross-faction features, we will try to keep Hordes with Hordes and Alliances with Alliances.

Allow people to change factions before it starts

It is a nice idea, we will definitely give it a thought.

Would like some idea of how legendary quest prgress will be saved? i have 13 shards of valy'nr will i lose all of those or will i be able to retrieve them once the ulduar gear unlocks formt he vault?

The progress of such chain quests would also be stored, once someone gets the first Val’anyr and the Vault of Eras unlocks the others, you will be able to retrieve your progress if you like.

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member
Edited by Spadita on 2019-10-21 22:45:36
You should take a deep breath and hit the wall several times with the head.:

We don’t think this suggestion helps in any way other than checking how hard the wall or the head might be, but that is material for another kind of survey.

Make each stage (after you open naxx) last 3 month minimum:

This time the progression will be fast-paced. We think 3 months for the Naxxramas stage might be too much. We will adapt the pace to the overall progression.

Adding some end tier gear to some vanilla bosses' loot tables and being able to receive it only if dressed in lvl 60 gear:

For now our priority is WotLK, thanks for the input though.

What happens to players who miss their attunement in Naxx tier?:

If they are brand new players, they have to start from Naxxramas like they have to do in Algalon nowadays. If they are players from the First Era, and they have already the attunement from before, they have 2 choices: 1) Attune themselves as a new player should or 2) Retrieve it when Realm First Ulduar is achieved, so they can join the progression from there without interfering with the Realm First race, keeping things fair for everyone. So if the Stage is already in ToC and they have missed the start, they can jump right away into ToC if the Realm First is already earned with their First Era’s Ulduar Attunement and gear.

A new server would bring more public, new servers spread far and wide through the community:

We are aware of that, but we are also aware there is a huge amount of people jumping from one project to another so, because of this, we don’t see it as a very robust idea. Of course, it has it's appealing and it is not off the table. It can be really successful but, what we want is a strong community; we already have one and we are trying to provide an alternative to the current waves or tendencies and let you decide.

I would like to suggest that you add cosmetic items (such as mounts, companions, tabards) to the voting and donation shop:

We have in mind improving the shops, the same as other features from the website.

If u wanna reset everyone without pissing anyone off, make a new server:

We do not reset anything, we just store raid and PVP related progression. Contrary to a new server where all the progress in quest, achievements, collections… etc, will be lost. With this idea, you get to keep them. The New Realm is a possibility we offer in the survey indeed, just wanted to clarify that point, and even if the community decides this option, some people will be angry too. There is no perfect choice.

Instead of releasing Vault of Eras items immediately once someone on the realm defeats a certain boss, make these items available on the next raid lockout reset day, or somehow otherwise force a minimum "weekly" progression for release of these items/achievements/etc. My only concern with this idea is that a group of power-gamers will swoop in and clear everything on the first day it's available, so more casual raiding guilds will not be able to fully experience the challenge you are providing.:

Thanks for the input, although aside from Naxxramas we hardly believe someone will clear Ulduar, ToC or ICC on the first day, based on how they were achieved in our First Era and the level of challenge from our raids. If your guild decides to go at their own pace, you can decide if you want to retrieve the items or not, it is optional so, the feeling of progression stays. Anyways, once a Realm First achievement is obtained, we will then schedule the next Tier release, it will not be accessible right away.

You need to make this an optional toggle, something similar to how VOA works:

We thought about this in the past, and it would work in a server with much more population; we are a medium size server with committed people where we believe it would divide the player base a lot. Nonetheless, we are going to discuss this possibility once again.

I would like to implement Glory of the Raider (10 and 25) rewards (Plagued Proto-Drake, Black Proto-Drake):

It is a great idea, something may be done about this.

Get rid of the attunement system currently in place:

We asked about it through the first survey to see what was the overall opinion about it; the vast majority likes it. It is something really unique and we would like to keep it as it is.

I would suggest advertising:

We are on it! We have campaigns on Social Media, Google ads, and other tools ready to go! However, we think the best advertisement is to spread the word between friends, the “Scroll of resurrection like” feature we will announce soon should also help in this regard.

Perhaps offer a temporary xp boost to entice new players to join?

It is a good idea, we will think about it.

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member
Edited by Spadita on 2019-10-21 22:49:08
Add transmogrification

This has been suggested many times over the years; we are still not comfortable with Transmogrification in WotLK so, we will not work on this for now.

I suggest you upgrade ALL RAIDS to ICC level (MC, BWL, etc.):

For now we will focus in WotLK, we have in mind to revamp those raids since we have had some twink guilds raiding them, but is not a priority right now.

Would be better to scale the gear down and level up with the progression:

It is one of the options we have been testing before presenting our idea. It is a nice solution but will unbalance many things. We didn’t test it with full groups on a real raiding environment, though, so we can’t be 100% sure. Additionally, it may break the “fresh” feeling if new players see older players with higher tiers’ gear equipped.

Just implement your RHC buffs and raid fixes to the server as it currently exists:

Raid fixes are surely going to be deployed shortly, however, we would need to think about the RHC buffs being applied to Algalon if the Second Era does not go live.

New realm with this system instead of implementing it on Algalon:

It is definitely something we already have in mind, if the community decides that the Second Era must not come to Algalon, this would be considered then.

I would suggest an event just before the launch that showcases the raids for people who have never been into them, like a museum:

This is a really cool idea, we will give it a thought for sure. Thanks for the input.

I would have liked if the old gear was available at any time, if only outside the instances:

We have also thought about this and performed some tests, but then we saw how those players wanting a “fresh” realm could be easily confused and how it would undermine their feeling after seeing other players wearing higher tiers outside raids. So we discarded this option for that reason.

Create a dedicated pvp server:
Not our priority right now.

Create your own achievements!

It will require custom patches to be downloaded by players and it would feel strange for many that seek a Blizzlike experience. We will not go ahead with this, sorry.

Lock the gear but unlock it sooner, right after the realm first of that tier or maybe a few weeks later to allow old players to reap rewards for sticking around:

We have given a lot of thought to this point over the last year, but we decided the best solution is to do it as explained, since it would provide a fair challenge for the Realm First races, while giving a small help to those who want to jump into the ongoing progression’s stage. Since the release of the raids would be fast-paced, that one who has a lot of the gear stored would have be in a huge advantage in the next raid Tier if they can unlock it beforehand. They would be BiS and ready to go, while new players would not stand a chance.

Would be a nice option that once icc is open again and the possible account wide achievements are implemented, that any char on the account does not need to go through the full progression saga:

That’s exactly how the account-wide achievement system we mention in our presentation works. Once you have it with one character, you will not need it with the rest. Although this is something we have worked on, we still need to see if it is something our community would like or not. We will bring back this subject once the time comes.

It is unecessary to reset progress without introducing any new content

As we can’t introduce new content in an already progressed WotLK realm, we have come with this idea to make it relevant and interesting once again. The attunement system works and keeps the raids flowing for every new player, but only on a low scale. If we want more people starting with us and old players returning, the option we propose could fit that purpose without destroying the collection efforts or the time spent completing your characters.

If you ever do a third age, start progression from vanilla and all level 80's and 70's revert to level 60

Our focus is WotLK, although we could talk about this if that time comes.

I can't see WHY, you would make this concept

We explained our reasons in the presentation.

A promotion could be added to give people who already have a lvl 80 character a chance to create a instant lvl 70 alt in order to give veteran players a chance to experiment with other classes

We have been thinking about some similar ideas, but instead we are going to offer the option to “resurrect/recruit an old player”. We will explain more about this feature shortly.

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member
Edited by Spadita on 2019-10-21 22:50:40
The problem is it just defeats the purpuse of a "fresh realm" pretty much once the main boss is dead everyone can equip their gear

The idea does not work like that, for example, Tier 7 will be unlocked after Tier 8 Realm First happens, so it will always be one tier below the current raid. Please, take a look to our explanation.

Not fair for new players

We believe it is, they can enjoy their own leveling experience with RAF, RDF, Heirlooms and jump into a fresh Raid and PvP progression, since everyone will be even in terms of gear and achievements.

One thing not explained, my attunements will be lost with the 2nd era?
It is explained in point 8 of our presentation. But no, you will not lose them, you will keep them stored and you can get them back when the Vault of Eras unlocks.

I would hate to lose my professions. At least keep that

We are not storing or removing them at all, just the recipes from the WoTLK raids.

Either you do a real "soft reset" or you don't. Ask yourselves, what is the real purpose of the Second Era, and if your actions are achieving such desire

We believe we are the first ones offering such a concept applied to this environment, so the explanation we have provided is the definition of a real Soft Reset for us. We did ask ourselves the real purpose, we explained it with plenty of details in our presentation, but we are not taking any action yet, we have just proposed the idea and let the community decide. Like we did when we designed several progression-wide systems for Algalon 6 years ago.

Isn't it just like starting a new character at level 80?

It is not like starting with a new character at all, because you keep all your efforts: achievements from quests, seasonal events, mounts, items, etc... and time played with your friends and guild in a safe place, and you just “restart” the raid and PVP progression.

If the Algalon realm votes to have a new realm. Maybe have the transfers be free but on a time limit. Example You can transfer realms once a month or once a week

If we offer the new realm instead of the other 2 options, transfers from Algalon will be guaranteed and absolutely free, of course.

Cut gold more drastically

We put on hold the idea of the gold, it generated too much controversy. We might propose some other ideas to help the economy.

If a new player starts now can use raf, rdf, heirlooms, 70 boost?

Of course, every one of the current features is and will be available.

How can you think about restarting/revamping a realm when there are still issues

The work is still being done, slow but steady. We are a small team, but we are on it. The answer is simple, there will always be things to solve, but the realm progression has been on the last stage for a long time already.

Change the attunement systems for toc5 normal and heroic modes. with only item level restriction. or completing the argent tournament

This is a great idea but will break a bit the progression. We will not do this, sorry.

Please, don´t give any heroic dungeon buff, as it is said on the explanation. I really miss the feel of challenging, and the NEED of using the different CC`s of every player to be able to progress through a HC. Dont steal that feeling from players pls!

With the buff our intention is to make the dungeons a bit more challenging, not the other way around.

You didnt even realse the new Heroic dungeon and you already are talking about a buff to beat them!?!? whats the point on making a reset then?? Let us suffer a bit to complete them

Everything has already been out for some time. The buff is on the NPCs inside the dungeon so you can have just a bit more of a challenge when you try to defeat them.

Something custom needs to be done about 80 pvp

We have prepared many incentives for the level 80 PvP and PvP in general. We will explain shortly what we have in mind as we have been planning some entertaining BG tournaments during weekends, no matter the results of the survey. PvP will start getting much more love from now on, stay tuned, please.

Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor

1 Orc Warlock
You mention that you are delaying gear by 1 tier to make it fair for new players then why are you releasing tier 9 gear after LK normal dies? Some of the tier 9 items are still BiS in ICC and others are just very good. Won't this give an advantage to old players during the race for LoD?

Dailynews @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
You say that you can farm 187 ilvl gear, yet you say nothing about the ilvl 200 items that you can also buy from the rep vendors. Why delete those, when you can just straight up buy them back.

Shneeki @ Kirin Tor

1 Troll Rogue
It was said by Loth that before 2nd era you will first focus on fixing existing bugs and polishing encounters. However there is almost no activity on the bugtracker atm. Do you plan to actually work on it as it seems that most of the dev. efforts are focused on 2nd era?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor

12 Human Paladin
Not even a word on the The "Complete wow Experience on the 3.3.5 patch" ... why would you guys not even mention it ?

Afraid people might pick up on the idea ? Come on ..

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member

There are still a lot of suggestions and questions to get addressed, as mentioned before, we will keep updating the list with them.


Furries @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Druid
The AQ chain:

Assuming I have already completed the quest chain but have the scepter in my bags will I be able to get the Scarab Mount? Will I have the option to talk to a GM for some way to rectify this?

Irenya @ Kirin Tor
1 Draenei Paladin
i very much like the idea. naturally there'll be many questions and hopefully all of em will be answered and addressed.

thank you guys for all your work =)

Naidira @ Kirin Tor
of Quel'Thalas

80 Blood Elf Paladin
It's clear that the team is going to great lengths to draw back as many retired players as possible, appease and retain current players, and draw in fresh blood. The amount of planning and consideration on all angles is much appreciated.

Speaking as someone that joined the server first race on Kirin Tor, I've been waiting for this to come around since resetting progression was announced way back when. I'm all for a rolling reset in the form of the Second Era, as I've had a hard time gathering up the gumption to get back into the server as it exists today.

A fresh realm, with progress-stripped transfers opening after the new realm matures, is also acceptable to me. Handled in a similar fashion as the Kirin Tor > Algalon transfers were...though without the same bumps in the road. I won't get into the elephant in the room (KT), but it'll need to be addressed at some point if a new realm comes to be.

Lastly, I implore the team to bang the dents out of the site a month or so before the Second Era comes to be. The mishmash of working, bugged, and outright broken features dissuades players that don't know the workarounds or just have no patience for them.

I wish the staff and players of Dalaran the best of luck on the road to this Second Era, and hope to see you all somewhere along the way.

Spadita @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member
I would suggest adding new raids based on cut content:

Sorry, we are not going to work on extra or additional content that was not available during WotLK.

You just want to wipe it all and start another. Why? Players are the ones keeping this all alive, so respect them. Respect us:

The option we are offering is entirely based on the respect we feel for our players. If we would want to just wipe everything without thinking about our players, we would have gone directly with a new realm. We understand some people don't want to start over or don't like the idea and that is why we have presented you with our idea and then let you decide about the outcome.

Should I begin crafting 200 lvl gear, should I not because I wont be able to use it?

You won't be able to keep it if the Second Era arrives, every item from level 200 gear will be stored (including the reputation vendor ones). The item level that you can craft or farm beforehand is 187.

Allow players to put gear back into the locked vault.Think of a druid with 4 specs and 4 sets of pvp gear for every tier:

This is a good point, we will think about implementing something like this.

You mention that you are delaying gear by 1 tier to make it fair for new players then why are you releasing tier 9 gear after LK normal dies? Some of the tier 9 items are still BiS in ICC and others are just very good. Won't this give an advantage to old players during the race for LoD?

This is a very good point, we will give it extra thought and discuss it again.

It was said by Loth that before 2nd era you will first focus on fixing existing bugs and polishing encounters. However there is almost no activity on the bugtracker atm. Do you plan to actually work on it as it seems that most of the dev. efforts are focused on 2nd era?

The development efforts have not only been focused on the Second Era, but many improvements are also always being rolled into Algalon, bugtracker is a bit outdated. Unfortunately, we haven't properly managed this and it is something we are planning to correct. Anyways, answering to your question: Yes, Second Era or not, every fix will be applied on Algalon.

Not even a word on the The "Complete wow Experience on the 3.3.5 patch" ... why would you guys not even mention it ?

We believe our community wouldn't be interested in it, therefore we are focusing our efforts on the WoTLK content. We are just considering options to relieve the WoTLK and those are, either the Second Era, a new realm or keeping everything as it is.

Guild perks/achievements as introduced from cata or mop?

We are not going to work on this for now, sorry.

Account-wide loot as-well. I.E. Mounts/Heirlooms ETC:

We are not going to work on this, it would totally remove the relevance to the alters characters as we know it in WoTLK.

Will profession recipes obtained from trainers get wiped? How about jewelcrafting vendor recipes?

No, only raid patterns/recipes will be stored.

The storage system is a really great idea but i think the access shouldnt depend on one group doing realm first on ulduar. players who want access to the storage system for tier 7 gear should do ulduar once or twice on their own before getting access:

This is a good point, although we believe it would be chaotic; if we set a date server-wide everyone could be under the same conditions. Keep in mind, Realm First Ulduar will not happen the same day Ulduar is released, and the item drop inside Ulduar will be far better than the Tier 7 gear. The race will still be relevant.

Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor

1 Orc Warlock
Out of curiosity are you going to do anything about epic gems and craftable recipes that had CDs on them in the early patches?
An example of recipes with CD: Ebonweave, Moonshroud and Spellweave.

Brumelion @ Kirin Tor
8 Human Mage
Edited by Brumelion on 2019-10-26 21:28:08
you mentioned pre-farming. what's your stance on darkmoon cards? some are ilevel 200 but what are you doing about decks - say you also vault the decks, time to farm herbs?
will the darkmoon faire even be active from the get go?

Dailynews @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
Are we also going to keep the Algalon key?

Edzero @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
Do you actually have the ability to provide a functional PvP environment in this soft reset? Every season has less arena and BGs than the last, and more win-trading.

Closekirinto @ Kirin Tor
1 Undead Rogue
Since gear is stored and can be used again when a certain phase is done it means that all the ppl that did wintrade in the past year with their alts/guildies (hundreds of toons in total) are coming back to their bis toons that they earned in an unfair way, will you remove all the wintraded s8 gear before second era begins?

Aethorien @ Kirin Tor
1 Human Paladin
Please work on the website, I am tired of some stuff not working right and other stuff working fine. Even as I type this the screen is broken

Doodo @ Kirin Tor
1 Orc Warrior
Is it possible for you to make an Armory after all this time?

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
4 Dwarf Paladin
So a major flaw in this whole thing is, giving players the ability to keep or remove old achievements. This will allow wintraders to get rid of the evidence of their old wintraded 3v3-5v5 teams with 4k rating. so when a new season lands they will have full wintraded gear, 277 weapons and shoulders completely destroying the balance forever.

Another thing is no one is going to want to pvp if since the first day of a new season, old players are going to have BIS gear instantly and absolutely destroy everything they touch. When naxx and the first arena season is released my characters are going to have full deadly and bis naxx off pieces and weapons, i will be able to solo an entire bg of new players, it's going to be so much more imbalanced than shadowmourne is now, it will be like have an entire legendary set and since the seasons are going to be short, players will never catch up to these older players.

If this era fails please start a new realm. This project may be too optimistic for it's own good.

Dailynews @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
No you won't Deathstep.

It will be locked in your vault until realm first yogg 0 25m has been killed.

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
4 Dwarf Paladin
What? Deadly was released in the first pvp season of wotlk. When Ulduar is release Furious will be the best pvp gear.

Dailynews @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
You will recieve your gear back, once it's not relevant anymore, hence the reason you won't be having any advantages.

They have been vague about the PvP gear, but as i understand it, it will be locked away for awhile. I assume until Yogg 0 25m has been killed, just like with the naxx gear.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
13 Night Elf Warrior
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-10-31 23:48:37
You will be able to retrieve your deadly glad gear only when a raid group will achiev the ulduar 25 realm first, so it will not be so relevant since season 6 (furious) has already started.
I agree with you and with all those who has written about the wintraders matter. Their achievements, arena teams and gear have to be deleted before the 2nd era starts. They can't be allowed to store the gear they have obtained by wintrading.

Malkavia @ Kirin Tor
Staff Member

We are going to publish an update from the surveys and the decision taken during the next few days so, stay tuned. We had planned to announce it sooner, however, we decided to wait a bit more as we kept receiving suggestions and new surveys completed.

Thanks everyone for your input and participation.

Qweqr @ Kirin Tor

2 Gnome Rogue
Hi. you guys stated that when second era comes raid related patterns you already learned will be put in storage. Few questions about the logistics of that:
1. Do the patterns that are put in storage remain as BOEs, or are they exclusively soulbound to that character.
2. Assuming if you unlearn that profession after storage happens, do you lose access to those patterns once they're unlocked?
Thank you for your time

Revena @ Kirin Tor

1 Blood Elf Paladin

We are going to publish an update from the surveys and the decision taken during the next few days so, stay tuned. We had planned to announce it sooner, however, we decided to wait a bit more as we kept receiving suggestions and new surveys completed.

Thanks everyone for your input and participation."

Is this still happening? The amount of instability this is causing with the current population (based on conversations I have seen in global chat), I would say the sooner the decision is announced the better.


Edzero @ Kirin Tor

1 Night Elf Priest
Only been saying for four years that we need a new realm.

Two years ago I was spamming global that we'd have a new realm in 2019. Rip those dreams

Doodo @ Kirin Tor
1 Orc Warrior
We'll get an armory one day maybe lul

Menoclaws @ Kirin Tor
1 Tauren Warrior
Did the survey take into consideration vote stuffing from people with numerous alts?

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
4 Dwarf Paladin
Battleground tournament???? rofl not enough lvl 80s for an AV game at this point, monitor pvp???? The only players now that "pvp" have full wrathful, t2 weapons and 4-5k 3v3 and 5v5 rating, fully geared, unpunished and unwilling to delete the gear if you talk to them which i have tried dozens of times.

The 42% of players that don't want the 2nd era will run the realm into the state of kirin tor, a slow death until there isn't enough players to raid, 1 faction will merge with the other to try and clear naxx for the new players, several revivals like we saw on kirin tor leading to

N O T H I N G.

It's comical really, like watching the decline of our western countries. No one is held accountable and the government looks the other way for the minority that causes most of our social unrest. Should you ban players now? No.

Next realm you guys make, make sure when wintraders are caught, it announces to the world that: "Name" was permanently banned for wintrading

repeat until no one does it anymore, lose a few players and keep half of your population and end game, which is pvp.

Merrelwinn @ Kirin Tor
15 Blood Elf Mage
Edited by Merrelwinn on 2019-11-09 01:45:08
The only mistake in this server is the attunement-system!

Most people join the server because they remember how much fun it was and they want to kill the Lich King again. They spend a lifetime to level up, but at lvl 80 they realize that they also need to go through all Naxx+Uldu+Toc raids both 10 and 25 lvl, just to be able to join Citadel raids.

Face it guys, everybody achieves attunement with the help of some hyper-overpowered friends, who carry them over those raids. While they are carried by those overpowered guys, they have no clue what is happening, they often just die in the middle of the fight, they don't even know why, but at the end they get resurrected and they receive the achi! There is no point, no challenge, and no fun in getting through those raids that way!

And the most annoying thing ever is this enormous difference between gearscores in everyday RHCs! Poor newbie tank with 3000 GS tries to hold aggro against a 6000+ GS dps? lol Seriously!?!? And then it is the healer's fault when the idiot dps dies because it pulled too much aggro! This ridiculous everyday issue is typically caused by the GS segregation that the attunement system creates!

In fact with the eternal progression system that the second era would have brought, everything would have been PERFECT! It would have solved everything! The only cost would have been that some players who are addicted to their tyrant high-GS position would have left... maybe... and after a while they would have come back anyway...

*** But now they cancelled the second era!!!! ***

The attunement system is only good with eternal progression or with very high population! Without second era there is no eternal progression! And the population is not likely to raise too fast either.

With the cancellation of the second era we need to remove the barriers that the attunement system creates as well!!!

Let every lvl80 player earn emblem of Frost, let them in to the TOC/ICC dungeons and all raids! That way the current GS segregation will mostly balance out! ((Diehard NAXX/ULD/TOC fans can go to those raids on their own, they can use their chosen gear and stuff. They don't need a vault of era to force them to do that!))

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