Topic

Second Era ideas.

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
Hello, I wanted to make a post regarding the news about the future of the server so people can give GMs more extended feedback than just a survey.

In my opinion the soft reset is not the best option. I don't know how they will implement it, but I can imagine something similar to the Herald achievement, when you can't enter a raid if you have more than certain iLevel gear, and the gear you already have will unlock when you win it again. I can also imagine that they won't allow crafted gear to enter for a while either for this same reason.
All of this is great and I have no problem with it, but there are some things that are not addressed in this system, like the economy in the server. Even if everybody have to go through everything again, there will be still a big gap between current and new players regarding gold and mats.

I voted for a new realm because I really think is the best option for the server. Probably this server has already had some "generations" of players, people that achieved LoD in the pass and left for other adventures, people that has lately got it, and people that is currently going for it. I think it would be great giving all these people a posibility to go at it again, but taking also in consideration the new influx of people that a fresh server always brings. That mix would make this server more alive than ever.

Regarding to the date of the opening of that new realm, I don't know how the releasing of Classic will affect the private servers community, but I would take that into consideration so all the hype will be put in here. I would open it in the beginning of August or after October.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts, and I would like to hear from everybody so GM know more about what we think or what we hope for the future of the server. Thank you all for reading.

Irenya @ Kirin Tor
Irenya
1 Draenei Paladin
0
Hi!

while i agree with some of what you say regarding a new realm, I would hate to lose all my farmed rep, achievements and the like. I've no problem with going back to lvl 1 or zero gold and mats for that matter... it's just the time spent hunting achievs, reputation, mounts and the like that rubs me the wrong way. I haven't been able to participate in all world events for example, and i'd love a chance at that for example.

I wouldn't move to a new server and do it all again, it's painful and honestly i'd quit playing and go back to single player games tbh... there's a reason one covets his characters and does all we do for em.

So I voted soft reset, hoping to keep my achievs and rep. The rest, i don't mind at all =)

Koraa @ Kirin Tor
Koraa
1 Troll Shaman
0
I get that your achievs and mounts are the most important thing for you but quiting the game because you lose all that you must be nuts. First of all it's all cosmetic i get it you have spent time for it but what i understand is that you are very attached to this things so doin it again shoudn't be a problem.
There is a big demand for woltk servers and this one might be the best if they are goin to do it properly, i feel like the classic hype will fade after 3 mounths. If they decide to release a new realm next year is the best option.

Koraa @ Kirin Tor
Koraa
1 Troll Shaman
0
All the wrath servers that i have played got something right, but in some regard they failed.
There was a time on this server when population was peaking both pvp(arenas,bg at 80 ofc) and pve were very active at that time the only problem was the delayed content.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
This Second Era 's purpose should be twofold.
To retain current players and to acquire new players.

High level, to achieve this it would require that both vanilla and tbc parts of content be brought up to the same level of quality that the wotlk content is at.

1. vanilla content patch (quests ,items, instances, raids)
2. tbc content patch (quests, items, instances, raids)
-to support those first two points, to encourage and promote player engagement add lv 60 via site for DP.

3. Lv 70 arena enablement ( currently disabled)

4. As an overall platform and to further promote the previously mentioned 3 points : revamp/update the site and the dp/vp shop to reflect this Second Era's stated goals.


Lurtza @ Kirin Tor
Lurtza
1 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Lurtza on 2019-08-15 21:54:31
New realm:
1.2x exp until 68 or keep 1x but from time to time make 2x exp events
2.PVP REALM (that being said site needs armory + pvp ladder; Pvp was cool here but it died because of win traders) take PVP in consideration.
3.Keep the atunnement system (this was the best thing about the server)
4.Make an official discord server and be active on reddit
5.Release server December or even next year so that classic hype dies (there is an big demand for wrath servers this might be the best one if done properly so better take your time and release when everything works as it should be)
6. Introduce transmog (this is just a side note because i see alot of people that want old raids to be alive so i suppose this will make it so. I guess instead of staying afk on dala stairs they can run old raids and dungeons that will surely keep people busy)

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
No new realm(s).

Yes for cosmetics.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Do you really think the server will get new players just by introducing these so called "vanilla-tbc patches"? I hear your call, I can understand it, but I fear it will only please our resident twinks. At the same time, you seem to not give a f**k about the wotlk content, since you are against the launch of a new realm or a raid reset. So, while you enjoy your old content, our lvl 80 chars should forever be freezed in the icecrown citadel-ruby sanctum patch with a dead pvp scene. Fair enough! So much for the best WOTLK private server.

Remuerto @ Kirin Tor
Remuerto

1 Undead Rogue
0
Soft reset, Hard reset, New Realm... nothing of this will matter if there is not an actual plan to get people to join. Algalon is one of the best scripted private WotLK servers (if not the best) and still there are massive issues related to faction disbalance, lack of raids on one side and afk BiS toons on the other, bloated prices and crazy economy, Bots and farmers, no pvp other than casual 70-79s BGs.... this is all due to the fact there is not enough people.

- I honestly believe there should be, first of all, a call to Developers and Moderators who can support the whole project. People who help fix things, who take care of hackers, cheaters, exploiters and farmer bots. The actual team seems shorter and people feel discouraged when their problems or reports receive no answer.

- After that, a good plan for a Second Era, not just based on a small enquiry but considering what made this server and others great and what made them fail and vanish.
PVE > To me, Progression is key. It's what makes this server great and what got so many people in other servers. But people know this expansion inside-out, so forcing a new system like Ulduar's Herald for all raids could be an option. I could go as far as even suggesting a hard progression with ALL dungeons and raids in the game, including all expansions. Although it sounds a bit extreme, content would be be duplicated this way.
PVP > New system of arena seasons, for 70 and 80. I mentioned it before, items available in Arenas should pair those existing at the start of every arena season. What makes no sense is finding teams with an afk guy in blues and a 6.5 rogue that oneshots you the moment you enter. There should be regulations and actions taken to avoid wintrading and shady stuff. I've seen "spectator mode" on other servers. Or Arenas could be limited to some specific days/hours. Hardmode option: only using PvP gear (except for weapons at start). Maybe the best teams of each season could take part on some special Tournament and access to titles and prizes. I would not allow, in any case, all the 277+ items that came out at the end of season or later in RS. All this would make it more enjoyable for all. These rules could be of course much more flexible for BGs, since the goal is to have as many people as possible and as many BGs as possible.

- And finally, a good advertising program to call players to join. This should be donde considering playerbase needs and experience, as well as dates, retail WoW, Classic and all that. Design of a calendar with specific events, open threads to consult players and encourage discussion, create anticipation on players and possible visitors.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
@panofsky

Not sure what you mean when saying that i dont give a fuck about wotlk content.

Right not the wotlk content is in a very good shape. For the greater part things work as intended.
It is whats broken and left to rot that needs fixing.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Romuerto you are practically suggesting a reset/relaunch of the realm with conceptually the same pitch as it was in 2014.
Thats not gonna cut it.
Unless they take a more holistic approach ,this new coat of paint would fade real quick.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Panofsky you say that 80s are stuck with icc and rs right now.
Do you want loth to roll out cata ? Do you want loth to create custom raids to be placed after rs in the sequence?
Would those things please you?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 10:37:39
@Arakis
I am not talking about the quality of the wotlk content. After a while, killing the same Icecrown Citadel bosses, over and over, becomes a bit boring. And we haven't got many options to fill our time while playing in this server, because, as I have already stated, the pvp scene is dead. We are talking about a progressive realm. I know, there is the attunement system, but right now a new lvl 80 player can be easily boosted trough Naxxramas, Ulduar and ToC by his ICC geared guildies. You can't expect a progressive realm playerbase to forever be frozen in the same patch. After a while, they will leave, looking for something fresh.

@Thoraf
Of course I don't want the realm to progress trough Cataclysm, neither to launch custom raids. I want a new realm, with the chance to port our toons there (with some ilvl restrictions), where the progressive realese of the raids will be much faster and they will focus a bit more on the pvp side of the game, to encourage a fair competition, in order to attract new players willing to join the endgame content. Therefore we will have a much bigger population. And Remuerto isn't just suggesting the launch of a new real with the same concept they had for Algalon. Like me, he wants more attention given to the pvp side of the game (with real arena seasons) and a more hardcore attunement system, based on gear restrictions. I also agree on ilvl gear restrictions for arena matches and the chance to use the spectator addon, so we can keep an eye on those wintraders.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-08-16 13:49:21
@panofsky
At least we got custom raids and cata out of the way.

Then is a new realm that you want.
It would seem that there are many who dont want this exact thing. And of course i dont know how many however ,since a survey took place it meant that it was kind of know to the admins that this section of the players is considerable.
It would be detrimental to the server to ignore a good portion of your most dedicated players , especially since the population is so low.
It will be much clearer when the server results are shared of course.

You have to understand, this realm is a snapshot within wows lifecycle. It is natural that eventually people would become content starved.

A new realm is the wrong answer, and a bad idea.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-16 14:07:56
With a new realm opened this current one would esentially be killed off . Then you would be left with a new deserted server since many would simply not roll with it.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Arakis

I don't even know why you are talking about Cataclysm or custom raids. I've never mentioned them, only Thoraf did. Since my first messagge I've mentioned only the launch of a new realm and the raids reset. I wil tell you this: should we really consider the opinion of our current (low) population if our goal is to reach a bigger one? Shouldn't we focus more on why we have lost so many players down the road? And by "players" I mean those willing to play the endgame content, not the twinks.

@Thoraf

It's a risk we may have to face but since our population is becoming lower by the day, we haven't so much to loose. I know other private servers have failed after the launch of a new realm but if they invest some recources on a good advertsing and they wait until there is a high demand for a fresh wotlk progression, the risk can be worthy. Introducing few changes to the concept, like those pointed by Remuerto, can increase our chances to win the lottery.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
@panofsky

I think you either dont get the points hes making or you just refuse to acknowledge out of vanity.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-16 16:17:17
Oh and it make zero sense to simply give away what you have i.e paying players for this supposedly new crowd .
Is like... Makes no sense man.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-08-16 16:26:49
Cata and custom raids came to mind when you complained that you are stuck with icc and rs.

I see you are atempting to discredit arguments you are in oposition with by labeling as pariahs or some kind of unwelcome annoyance certain groups of players.

At this time i will point out to you that regardless of what precisely players choose to do on the server ,they are equally valuable. At the same time a donators dollar is equally valuable if he raids ulduar or faps while fishing in nagrand.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
"This Second Era 's purpose should be twofold.
To retain current players and to acquire new players.

High level, to achieve this it would require that both vanilla and tbc parts of content be brought up to the same level of quality that the wotlk content is at.

1. vanilla content patch (quests ,items, instances, raids)
2. tbc content patch (quests, items, instances, raids)
-to support those first two points, to encourage and promote player engagement add lv 60 via site for DP.

3. Lv 70 arena enablement ( currently disabled)

4. As an overall platform and to further promote the previously mentioned 3 points : revamp/update the site and the dp/vp shop to reflect this Second Era's stated goals."

THIS!

Also panofsky wants to be risky.
Alright panofsky, why is your opinion more valid than someone elses? What make it more valuable? Why do you wish for a portion of the current players to no longer play here?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
All who seem to want either a new realm or a reset seem to be unable to formulate how precisely would those things cause the population to increase.
Those are shitty ideas but still id like to know what those peoples views are.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 18:06:23
@Arakis and Dachia
I think my opinions are more valuable because they are related to the wotlk content and we are playing in a wotlk server. I would be called autistic if I express my opinions while not supporting them in the first place! I already stated that I can understand your opinion, I would like to see our resident twinks happy but I fear that's not what we need to increase the server population. I mean, Dalaran WoW is known to be a wotlk server. If you search info about this server on the internet, that's what you get: awesome wotlk raiding experience (being it on reddit, social media, youtubers, streamers etc etc...). The twink community is a very niche one, so I don't really get how we can hope to get many new players just by fixing the older content.

@Thoraf
You are amazing, dude! You are calling shitty the very same ideas our developers came up with, when they organized the survey. I have already mentioned the reasons why the launch of a new realm, with the inprovements proposed by Remuerto, would get new players and increase our population. Fair and healty competition given by a renew pvp scene, with proper arena seasons (which is exactly what you are asking for, at lvl 70). A more hardcore attunement system with ilvl restrictions and the chance to feed the need of a fresh wotlk progressive experience. I hope I have enlightned your mind, clouded by your doubts.

P.s.: the two may come togheter. Nothing stands against the chance to launch a new realm with the fixes you are asking for (vanilla and tbc patches) and the improvements I would like to see applied. Chars can be ported from Algalon to the new realm so you will not loose your precious twinks.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-16 18:18:29
Ok so at least that part is clear, you ARE in fact special. Kay,good stuff. We are playing on a wotlk server , and it IS understood that northrend things would have priority - which they do!
I dont get why you keep beating the dead horse.
I have all the right to criticize ,or wait, am I not special enough?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-16 18:29:09
Heck is not the twinks even, is the six 80s with 6k gs and their achievements. The twinks are the cherry on top.

Running two realms is an absurd concept, what point is to run 2 dead servers?

Edit: maybe i misunderstood, you dont want 2 servers but this one closed and a new one opened with all this stuff rolled into it?
Like, really? You actually legitimately think such a thing is plausible?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 18:57:14
@Serenna

So, you have six lvl80 chars above 6k gs. I am happy for you. Well, you will have the chance to port them to the new realm, you will not loose them. Maybe you will loose only your gear. Is it a gearscore matter? Because I am not one of those who like to afk the entire day at the Dalaran Bank Stairs just to show off. Aren't you getting bored by raiding Icecrown Citadel over and over again? Aren't you getting bored by the fact that you can overgear an amazing raid like Ulduar? I am about to complete my Shadowmourne quest on my warrior. It will be the very first time I achieve that damn legendary axe in a legit way (I've never shopped it in any other wotlk server). Still I would be happy to throw it into the trashcan if I can get a new fresh realm.

And by the way, they are already running a dead realm, which is Kirin Tor.

I don't know, they can choose to run the new realm alongside Algalon and let the players decide if they want their chars to stay there or to be ported. Algalon would definetly loose part of its population but we may have a new, more populated realm. I know it's risky. Another wotlk private server has fallen after the launch of a new progressive realm but we can learn from those mistakes and not repeat them.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Yea i feel enlightened beyond doubt now that panofsky has blessed me with his deep and educated strategic thinking.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
A new realm with ported chars is a worse idea than a fresh start realm with x1 xp.

As for my 80s, i havent done icc since it released on here 2 years ago. No i dont afk on the stairs, im quite active actually just not doing lv 80 centric things. Occasionally i do take the 80s for a spin of course.

If alternatives besides lv 80 stuff didnt exist here i would have quit two years ago.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
I can't wait to read your business plan, Thoraf.
No need to be so salty, it was just a metaphorical joke.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
No saltiness going on.

This starts from the premise that the server is in a difficult time, a crisis if you want.
The owner(s) ability to keep up with the times and with the community and the devs ability to make due with very few options are ultimately the deciding factors.

A new realm falls in the high risk bucket. In many business scenarios high risk ventures are counterbalanced by a high reward.
To keep in mind, this type of scenario is influenced by many factors and
any miscalculation can easily lead to complete failure. Also this is a position of exposure, there is no cushion to fall back on to, no plan B, is all in.

What we've got here is a situation where there arent many options, is a stagnant realm, a snapshot within wow. A niche audience to cater to, a very old game
running a very old patch on a 'private' server where the niche playerbase mix changed over the years.
This sort of all in approach is a sort of luxury that cant be afforded due ,but not limited to:
- Overall player support for such venture does not exist.
- The overall population is so low that any splits in it would mean collapse.
- The nonexistence of an external factor to sharply and positively alter the numbers of players i.e. molten shutdown.
- The existance of an external factor that negatively impacts server population - Classic launch.
- The already mentioned low count of potential creative options that may substantially improve the situation.
- While this is debatable as we dont know , in fact, what the owner(s) plan is. Nonexistence of both a short and a long term plans
that would complement each other, function in tandem.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-17 15:33:36
As far as what to actually do:

Re-launch dalaran wow as the "complete wow experience on the 3.3.5" patch.
Notice the difference, notice the pitch does not center around the northrend raiding or northrend content.
Instead it wants to invite players to experience wow in its entirety, on a 3.3.5 patch.
It is too little and too late to only care and cater to and for solely northrend.
A more wholesome experience expands the options the devs have a little bit,
it gives prospective new players a entire world to play in, it offers increased variety and it appeals to a wider audience.
As part of this 're-launch' ,this same realm would be reset and here is how:
Implement the package as Arakis suggested:
-tbc content patch
-classic content patch
-60/50 via site for dp. the actual level here does not matter as long as it gives quick access to end game classic/ start of tbc.
-lv 70 arena
-revamp the site/shop.
Existing chars would be 'labeled' as 'first era' and newly created chars as 'second era'.
To preserve and promote the competitive aspect of lv 80 activities specifically, 'first era' and 'second era' chars will not be able to join lv 80 raids or lv 80 pvp together-ever.
FE chars will still exist the way they are now, they can raid or pvp together, gear remains intact etc.
While all existing chars will be labeled FE ,the FE and SE raiding/pvp restrictions would only apply to lv 80 toons.

This approach tackles pretty much all pros and cons of all the suggestions so far, removes no chars or gear, uses same realm, offers something to everyone including a fresh start.
Most most importantly, it offers a whole fully scripted, bug free, new world to play in.



Is your turn now to formulate and show us how a new realm would be a good venture.
show us how would opening one would affect the community and show us what is your projection regarding dalaran-wow 6 months after a supposed opening of said new realm.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
omg ... this please ffs..

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
I have read every post since I opened this thread, and this last one from Thoraf I have found it very interesting since it would be a solution for those who don't want to lose their characters and say that they won't play in a new fresh server.
I still find some of the problems I mentioned in my post with this system, though.
Would it still be a fresh server appealing to new players, one that has people with maxed professions, lots of emblems, gold, etc? How would that affect the economy?
Would those players accept if they clean everything except the mounts, per example? Would new players join a "new" server where some players already have Invincible, per example?
I am not sure about any of these questions, but it made me think.
Thanks for all the feedback you guys are doing, I am sure it is helpful for everyone, including the developpers.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 18:00:46
@Thoraf

You are leaving out a big question: why should anyone be interested in enjoying the entire wow content in a 3.3.5a patch server? Because frankly, no disrespect, but this forum is the very first place where I read someone being interested in such a gaming project (interest mostly coming from you, Serenna, Arakis etc etc..). Back in the days, Blizzard offered you the chance to play only one kind of patch on retail servers. So, if you didn't play on retail WoW when the fist version of the game launched, you could experience the older content only from a later prospective (for example, killing Ragnaros with a lvl 80 char or a wotlk twink). But we are talking about the private server community. Every player now has the chance to download different versions of the game and:
- enjoy the vanilla content in a 1.12.1 server
- enjoy the tbc content in a 2.4.3 server
- enjoy the wotlk content in a 3.3.5 server etc etc...
Some private servers has offered a longer progressive experience, starting from a lvl 60 cap up to lvl 80. But in the end, the real core of the project has always been the wotlk content. As a player, I would be more interested in clearing a TBC raid with my char acting like a TBC char, with those given abilities, rotation, talent trees etc etc Otherwise, my experience would be altered by the changes applied by the later expansions. Someone would say that it would be easier...

Now to the First Era and Second Era char concept: no offense, but it's like to launch a new realm, without the chance to port your Algalon chars inside said new realm. You would divide the playerbase from those willing to play their old chars and those willing to play the SE ones. You may tell me: they can do both. I would answer: just as they can play in both realms. Sure, the population would be bigger, but still it would be splitted in half.


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 17:55:45
Last but not least. You have pointed out the risks connected to the launch of a new realm. I would like to answer a few:
- we definetly need to take in consideration the launch of Classic WoW. As many of us have already stated, we should at least wait until the Classic hype has diminished. Vanilla is a much grindy-er version of the game and many players, who will try it for the first time, may become exhausted after a while and look for something more casual-friendly, like a wotlk private server.
- you have mentioned the molt-down as an example of a external factor which can positively alter our population. As of right now, most of the wotlk servers (at least the most famous ones) have already reached the final step of the progression or they haven't been able to live up to the community hype. One of them has even been shut down, some have seen their population fall down to much lower numbers we face now on Algalon. From this point of view, Dalaran WoW is considered to be a positive exception to this derailing trend. We should really be greatful that this server is still running after so many years from its launch. So, right now there isn't such a great competition and we may be able to deliver the fresh progressive experience many wotlk fans are waiting for.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Gargola maybe I am reading it incorrectly or maybe I read just what I want. It seems you are overlooking half of what I said.
I have tried to come up with something substantial, something lasting that affects all player sections and does not exclude anyone.

Anyway, now to the concerns related to badges, gold, profs and such.
Since, as far as 'end game' raids and pvp FE and SE chars practically live in distinct bubbles ,things like badges have zero impact. There would be no competition in that regard.
As far as profs, I would go easy on that front and be considerate of the current players while at the same time not interfere with the economy, leave it as is and let it develop on its own.
As far as mounts and stuff like that, I doubt a new player looking to raid icc fresh along everyone else and understanding what FE and SE are ,would care about those who cleared years before. I dont find some mounts as consequential.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky.

I take no offense, I am not easily offended.
You list like , what, 3-4 people who as you say like this approach.
Go check out the lv 60 via site thread in the general section of this site, you may count 20 or more there plus a mod acknowledgement. Does a particular number make you feel better or are you trying to (again) discredit an idea not by its real worth but by side stepping, distractions and placing labels?

I dont find much concise reasoning in your post and so I will leave someone else tackle it.
I will just say that you clearly can't see or don't want to see the bigger picture. Can't say which it is but I mean, is not like this has not been explained in other threads on this forum.

"You would divide the playerbase from those willing to play their old chars and those willing to play the SE ones."
You would not divide players, you would divide chars between 'eras' but you will continue to have everyone in one place - catch the drift ?
Do you understand that by doing so i.e. having everyone in one place, you retain people?
People who will today not get into the SE, may get into it tomorrow BUT you have them close you don't essentially reject them - do you understand?
So no, it is very much unlike having a new realm open.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Now just quickly responding to two points.

"You may tell me: they can do both."

Of course I would and I am.
However what is key here, you tell nobody to fuck off, you treat everyone with consideration.

" I would answer: just as they can play in both realms. Sure, the population would be bigger, but still it would be splitted in half. "

You can answer that and it will be the wrong answer. And that's fine, is your opinion whatever. One of the problem is that, in fact, they would not play in both realms. What you would see is many leave and at the very best, you would have a dead realm and an almost dead realm. Like, 'deader' than what we've got today.

Anyway bud, make an effort to think outside the box and also tune those critical thinking skills.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-17 19:38:14
yup i'd roll with this complete wow experience on the 3.3.5 patch.

-my toons and gear are safe , check.
-current realm is preserved, check.
-new, fresh start, check.
-new awesome content and things to do, check.

Please take my $

Oh and panofsky, do you have something against me agreeing with this ?
I understand thoraf isnt special enough but what about me?!

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
I wasn't overlooking it Thoraf, maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I liked your idea, I was just trying to play devil's advocate and find some flaws in it that I think would be retrimental to the player experience. I am still not convinced with what you told me.
Let me explain. Per example, a player who has an old character an decides to try the new experience with a new one could have the mats and professions to easily craft some gear ready for the just released new content, deminishing the challenge of some fellow raiders that go with him. In the long run it wouldn't really matter, but in the first steps of the progression it would deminish their experience of it, in my opinion. In terms of badgets I was again thinking in terms of professions, allowing players to craft primordial saronite gear when they release ICC.
Maybe gold is not as important as the rest of the things I mentioned but it would still affect economy if there is a huge gap between some of the players.
One way to solve all of this would be making an ah separate from the old players to the new ones, and not allowing trades from old players and new ones, or being in the same guild.

Maybe I am overthinking things but I thought this was something to take into account.

After thinking about all of this, and reading what Panofsky said, I think he may be right in the split population. It is true that all would be playing in same realm and that would be great in terms of socializing in global chat, but I think that would be all. You can't join same dungeons, or raids, so time waiting for raids would be similar for old players. Maybe more if some go trying the new experience, maybe less if old players come back.

Again, I am just trying to find the best possible solution. If I don't mention other things that you wrote in your post is because I probably agree with them.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-17 21:09:01
Hey gargola,

Excluding the primordial saronite/higher tier crafts point you brought up I see the gold/crafting aspects marginal as far as overall impact.
Keep in mind that as far as SE is concerned, there should be at the same time strict gs restrictions and other tier restrictions to prevent (among other things) the usage of 'higher tier' crafted gear brought over from FE.
To make it clear, the things I have already mentioned are just a presentation of FE/SE all in very broad strokes, there will be gaps and errors.

Regarding the comment on split population.
Upon the release of the second era, the realm would host two meta groups.
1. the FE group
2. the SE group

The restrictions on raiding and PVP would be only for lv80 end game, worth mentioning again.

I believe you are talking , again, about lv 80s and you say :
"You can't join same dungeons, or raids"
Exactly , that's the whole or most, of the point of having a restart right ?

Then you continue:
"so time waiting for raids would be similar for old players"
And that is their choice, they choose to not participate in the SE.
They may refuse today but may join tomorrow, the idea is that as a server, you leave the door open you don't burn any bridges and let people make their choices.
One thing you seem to overlook is not including in this equation a number of some newblood.
Sure, people who have quit three years ago may return but keep in mind that we are trying to also get to those who have never played on dalaran as well.


Forgot to mention something on the said 'gaps' between players.
Consider this, a brand new player arriving on the server would be at a disadvantage relative to one who has been here for six months, correct ?
This established, how is your comment on 'gaps' relevant?




Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 21:17:44
@Thoraf

Sorry but I don't consider 20 or more players a realistic picture of our community. Numbers are still too low on both sides but that's not the point. Sadly this forum hasn't been really active since a couple of years or even more. Truth be told, I am quite surprised to see how many serious threads have been opened lately.
It's the second time you don't know how to answer to my objections about the "entire wow content experience in a wotlk server" concept. Take in consideration that I am not against the release of those "vanilla-tbc" patches. It would definetly add something new to our server (even to a new realm) and please many resident players. I just don't consider it an attractive factor for the new players.
To have both FE and SE chars in the same realm would not be so different from having two separeted realms. With the only exception of the economic system, since you seems to believe that FE and SE chars should be able to trade and share the same auction house, the population would be split in different eras. And I think this would detrimental for some players.
For example: I've taken advantage of the free istant lvl 70 feature to level up a shadow priest. Should my guild be in dire need of a caster dps, I would be able to switch roles from my fury warrior and help them in the progression. But what if my new SE char couldn't join my FE guild in the progression? In this case, wouldn't be better to have two separated realms? Or at least, we should let the players decide, but that would be quite messy.
And I don't think that the launch of a new realm would mean a rejection of our old players. I don't want Algalon to be left to ruin just because of that.
Your project is definetly more "wotlk-friendly" than the mere introduction of a vanilla-patch, I will give you that.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 21:31:39
@Serenna

Funny thing is, you would be able to achieve all those goals even with a new realm:
- my toons and gear are safe, check (nobody will force you to port them in the new realm)
- current realm is preserved, check (the two realms can coexist, Algalon souldn't be left to ruin just because a new realm has been launched)
- new, fresh start, check (I guess I don't need to explain why)
- new content, check (nothing stands against the idea to release the so called "vanilla-tbc" patches on both realms)

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky ,

You actually don't see it, pretty sure now it isnt that you dont want to see it.
So because I think that I will explain one more time, just for you, and take it piece by piece.

" I don't consider 20 or more players a realistic picture of our community."
I also don't consider you the spokesman of our community.
So what ... whats the point of your statement?

" Numbers are still too low on both sides but that's not the point."
Which sides are you talking about?

"Sadly this forum hasn't been really active since a couple of years or even more. "
Okay

"Truth be told, I am quite surprised to see how many serious threads have been opened lately. "
Do you like strawberries?

"It's the second time you don't know how to answer to my objections about the "entire wow content experience in a wotlk server" concept."
Please go ahead and ask the question one more time, had no idea you asked something like that.

"Take in consideration that I am not against the release of those "vanilla-tbc" patches. It would definetly add something new to our server (even to a new realm) and please many resident players. I just don't consider it an attractive factor for the new players."
Yup

"To have both FE and SE chars in the same realm would not be so different from having two separeted realms. With the only exception of the economic system, since you seems to believe that FE and SE chars should be able to trade and share the same auction house, the population would be split in different eras. "
Those two things would be like... a world apart.
If you open a new realm it means you force stuff down peoples throats.
If you let them stay on the same realm it means you are considerate of their time and support to the server.
You, would like to force people into doing something, because you feel like it or because you think you know best.
I, would prefer to let them choose.
THAT is the central difference between the FE/SE model and the new realm model.

"And I don't think that the launch of a new realm would mean a rejection of our old players."
Okay, who said all veterans would reject it?
In fact, I know for certain that not all would. I also know for a fact that many will.
Again, I don't see what you are trying to say here?

" I don't want Algalon to be left to ruin just because of that."
It will die off weeks after opening a second realm.

"Your project is definetly more "wotlk-friendly" than the mere introduction of a vanilla-patch, I will give you that"
My heart is filled with joy.





Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
@everyone

Contrary to your belief, I think we are starting to meet eachother in a middle ground but maybe we don't feel the same way.
I think both sides have explained very well their different point of view. Now it's up to the devs to decide (or to explore new paths we haven't considered yet). Unless someone will come up with new ideas, this conversation may become a bit redundant.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
K.





You still dont get it.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Oh comon, Thoraf, give me a break!

I don't consider myself the spokeman of our entire community. Neither you should. 20 people inside a private server forum? Do you really consider them a relevant fraction of our playerbase?

I was obviously talking about these sides:
- those who approve the launch of a new realm
- those who are against it and/or approve your project

Good job on dodging my argument about the alts.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
You act as if you were.

I am not dodging , whats the question?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 23:39:45
Unless you give the chance to choose, when a new char is created, to toggle it as FE or SE, the FE chars will be left to die, since they will be able to interact only between each others and their guilds will not be able to fill their ranks with new chars/players. Which is exactly what you fear will happen to Algalon should a new realm be launched.

And I think it would be a quite hard feature to add for our devs.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
This isnt a question, is a statement.

Ive tried to decipher what you are trying to say, hopefully I got it right.

There is no toggling. Once the supposed new era starts, all newly created toons are labelled SE.
The lv 80 FE chars would only be able to do lv 80 raids and pvp with other lv 80 FE chars. So again, this rule would apply only to 'end game content'.
They would be free to do any other content with anyone regardless of era as long as it is not 'end game content'. What do you mean with "left to die" ?

If a new realm were to launch then groups of PEOPLE, okay, not chars will be split.
People would be split between the two supposed realms, meaning instead of 20 people playing now on algalon you would have say 10 moving onto the new realm and 10 staying.
Out of the 10 on algalon some will move to the new realm eventually, some will quit for being essentially abandoned by the server runners and maybe half a person will stay on for a singleplayer experience.
Do you get it now, what's so difficult?



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
"And I think it would be a quite hard feature to add for our devs."

So then might as well close shop, because you know ... "is hard" .
What do you mean with this ?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-18 00:15:41
They will be left to die because players come and go. There isn't a real "stable" playerbase or do you really think all the players will still be running around here for an infinite time?
If all the new chars will be labeled as SE, given some time the FE chars will not find someone to fill their guild ranks, their raids.

When I was talking about a difficult feature to add I meant the "toggle FE or SE" one.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
And just because a new realm will be launched it doesn't mean the devs will leave Algalon to die. Just because it happened with Kirin Tor (which wasn't a progressive realm by the way, but just the starting base for the Dalaran WoW project, a normal wotlk realm with all the content already released) it doesn't mean it will happen again with Algalon. It wouldn't be even the first private server running multiple realms.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
People being split? Why? They would just click on the freaking "choose realm" button!
We already have players playing on different servers at the same time. Or do you think that those who play here do not know how to change their realmlist file?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
A new realm is a bad idea, BAD.

The principal reasoning for having a FE/SE type of segregation is to allow for a reset on progression. The secondary reasoning is to preserve FE chars as they are today.
The tertiary reasoning for a FE/SE model is to keep people together while THEY figure out what THEY want to do with their time while on the server and at the same time preserving algalon.

Due to those three reason the FE/SE model is net superior to a new realm model.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Panofsky, with each additional post you make you become less and less coherent.
Is it late where you live, do you need to go to bed ?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Panofsky do you like strawberries?

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
panofsky, if ur bored make a new char... not that hard. If u dont like raiding ulduar with 6k carries...dont invite them...not that hard aswell

Also if they gonna make a new server wich i am allowed to bring my twinks to but have to strip my 80 chars to blues....well then i am gonna play mop or warmane.

Maybe stop crying start playing? over 700 peeps online today on horde side alone so the dead server drama is mostly in your head.

If u like 80 pvp transfer to ally and que up. There is enough hordies waiting for you :)
I will heal you dont worry

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
ow and that fe/se idea is not bad. But just give new chars a choice if they wanna be either fe or se. People who want to play progression can do it hardcore then and the rest just normal business as usual.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
See?
Obro has sense, choice is good. Forcing shit on people is not good.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Actually that should work.
Basically a new toon would either belong to either FE or SE and can be done only once at lv 1. Something like those nps in the capitals that lock XP, talk to them and they would flip the toon to FE, just need to add it to each starting area right at the initial spawn location.

So it would go like this:

1. make new toon ( comes standard a SE char)
2. talk to said npc at lv 1 (if you level past lv 1 you get stuck with SE)
3. switch for free to FE

Voila!


Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-18 11:23:08
Here's my viewpoint.

Why you would want a new realm:
Will hopefully attract a lot of new players.
Hard reset of the economy. (No more duped money in circulation)
All players will be on an even playing field.
Almost no coding/work required.

Downsides to a new realm:
Will lose more old players than a soft reset.
Can't be sure new players stick around.
Will lose character levels, titles, recipes, mounts and other collectible items including items from the donation shop.
Will strongly incentivize players to leave Algalon and realisticly kill it even if it takes a little time.


While there are some clear upsides to a new realm i must say that there are a lot of downsides as well.
So as i see it either we try to reduce the amounts of downsides of making a new server or we bring some of the upsides of a new realm into the soft reset.
Because i've heard that people are adamant about keeping their items I'm going to explore the soft reset option.

With good timing and some well placed adds getting new players should still be doable even without a new realm. So it's not a huge obstacle for the soft reset.

The same can't be said about the economy. The problem is that there basicly are no great soloutions and therefore the ones i've come up with will have flaws.
My most obvious fix would be to give the players a fair warning before you delete all gold with the start of the new era. This is a pretty brute force soloution and certainly won't fix everything since the rich players will spend their gold on items that have value even after the gold deletion. But that is also why it isn't completely unreasonable.
A different approach could be to allow players to trade in large amounts of gold for donation and/or votepoints. I am not sure about the exact conversion rate, but it would only be targeted at the very richest players on the server to try and drain some of their massive amounts of money out of the economy.

When it comes to advantages outside of gold I'm sure there are ways to make sure that emblems and orbs (frozen, runed, crusader and primordial saronite) are gated off so that players won't be able to craft every item for every player on the release of a new tier.

The downside to all of this is that all the work you put into a fancy new system is work you're not putting into other issues such as a vanilla/tbc rework or just general bug fixes of which there are plenty remaining.



On the subject of a FE/SE system i don't see why you would spend time making a system to split people inside the same realm. As i see it either you make a new realm for a proper reset or you keep people together on the old realm. Why would you spend a lot of work on a middle way with no clear advantage over the other options?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Thanks for the contribution vigilance.

The advantages of a FE/SE model are as follows.

- clearly identifies and segregates chars depending on players choice.
-allows for the player to retain the FE toons unchanged.
-it does not split people or groups, it splits characters.
-provides for the need of a reset
-preserves algalon and the current playerbase

This is not a middleground, is keeping everyone on one realm , with changes.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Another advantage in having a FE/SE system would be that say every year following the SE release ,a new era could be rolled out easily no hassle.

But again, the realm needs a rebranding , needs to offer more options to people as far as game activities.

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
TLDR improve the overall pve and PvP by policing the community and making the server bug free. Everything else is trash

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Amazing. They bash me but still they agree with me and they come to the conclusion players at least need to choose if their new chars should be labeled as FE or SE. Never seen such incoherent people. Make peace with your brain, guys.


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Obro

The true purpose of this thread is to bring ideas about the future of our server. Therefore, informing me that 700 players are online on the horde side or suggesting me what to do with my free time is the most stupid thing you could come up with. I will definetly not take these suggestions in consideration.
I have never said that this server is dead. I have only said its pvp scene is dead. Please, learn to read and rielaborate.
The only people crying on this thread are you and your friends, who are afraid to loose their precious items. Even if I have written 1000 times that nobody will be forced to port their chars from Algalon.



Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Panofsky and dadstep ,

You two contribute nothing to this thread.
Clearly, you both like strawberries.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
New realm is the worst idea possible.
And dadstop, why so dense?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-18 14:18:23
Lol panofsky....

We dont want any stinking porting , we dont want a new realm.

The crying one is you complaining about lv80 pvp at every possible opportunity.
Obro was only trying to help you because you clearly need it.

You are in no position to even speak about others and their chars. You joined recently ? Do you only have one valuable toon?
Well , ill break it for you and tell you that many are in a different league and dont want to see their time spent turn to nothing.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Arakis, please. You guys are just licking each other ass.
The only one who has come up with some interesting, but still debetable, ideas is Thoraf.
Your only contribution is that hilarious "vanilla-tbc" patch, and you will keep asking it like a whining child until the devs will give you an istant lvl 60 feature. So fucking obvious. And try to elaborate something different, that "strawberry" joke is old already.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Serenna

It seems you need to learn how to read, just as your friend Obro does. While aswering to a previous Thoraf post, I've already written that I've leveled a shadow priest using the free istant lvl 70, should my guild be in dire need of a caster dps. And that's only one of my alts (I've got a dk, a leveling warlock and a rogue, plus my main warrior). I am quite sure that I am not an altoholic like you but why should it matter? There is no stinky porting to be used if you don't want to. Guess it's a really hard concept to understand.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Lol dadstop came to troll us and now you feel hes got your back.

Listen warchief, there is no ass licking happening , is just a forum.
If you cant handle it , go away.

My contribution is half of what thoraf presented.
Your contribution is half of zero.

For the love of thrall, PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
So like wtf , playing multiple toons is out of style or something?
Do we need to copy you to be trendy?
So you arent just special but also a trendgiver, damn boy!

Panofsky for warchief!

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Learn how to read, I've already done it multiple times.
Your contribution is not even 12% of a plan. The FE-SE concept is a huge step foward, since it includes, at least, a wotlk content reset but it still has some flaws.

The problem is that you guys can't live with the fact that someone can disagree with you. I can handle it, that's why I've written that this conversation was becoming a bit redundant and now we should leave the devs to decide or someone else to bring different suggestions.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Look warchief,

The conversation does not end when you say so.
It ends only when/if the thread gets locked by a mod.
Until such thing happens, you have to live with the fact that someone might still have something to add.

The problem is that you are a poor conversation partner.

Are you going to show us why and how a new realm is the answer?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
Obviously I am in no position to decide when a thread should be closed, we could have just spared humanity from reading your last posts, Arakis, but you keep goin on.

"It ends only when/if the thread gets locked by a mod."

And I guess this is what you are looking for, since you have run out of arguments.

I'm still trying to understand which kind of autistic logic you have used to write your previous post. Do you understand that "altoholic" is not an offense but a generic and neutral term used to describe someone who has many alts, right?

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
lol i make 1 tread and this is the salt i get :) whatever panofsky i love you as you are

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky are you trying to join the forum meme club?
As for the autistic comment, I would not open that can of worms if I were you.
Don't take jabs at people unless you are prepared to be hit back, is how it works.

Arakis's suggested portion regarding the tbc/vanila stuff + the lv50/60 via site is a vital component of the 'new era' or whatever you wanna call it.
It is vital because it adds long term sustainability to the realm, because it contributes at enticing certain newblood to join and it offers many existing players more stuff to do.
So in all, it adds huge value to the realm, makes it better, more rounded.

Since tbc+vanila content is over 50% of the game's content (3.3.5 patch) how in the world did you come up with 12% ?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
panofsky,

For the love of thrall, PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Oh and yea, that 12% comment, whats that ?


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
For the love of god, guys, it was just a famous movie reference. But should I be surprised that you couldn't get it?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Dear warchief,

Are you going to answer the question?

PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.

Tell us in an educated fashion, and in your presentation clearly identify pros and cons and have coherent answers to all the points.
Also please use paragraphs so is easier to read.


Thanks

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
5 Night Elf Warrior
0
I am sorry, Arakis, I am honored to be called "Warchief" but that seat has already been taken by the only true Hero of the Horde, Trueotmin.

Before you take this seriously, people use to call him Warchief in the horde global chat.
Cya guys, I wish you all the best nonetheless.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Yes, otmin is loved by all, misunderstood by many and a great warchief at noon on Tuesdays.

I was looking forward to your candid response re: 'new realm' but alas...

We love you too and wish you all the best.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0

pls dont go :(

May your days be long and your hardships few!

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
After the arena rewards were withdrawn from the last 2 seasons for wintrading the entire PvP community quit, I remember sitting down and doing 6 hours of arena on this sever at a time and never waiting long for a queue, the last time I tried to queue here we sat for 2 hours to get 4 games during a weekend and peak hours. Now bgs only pop during Eu peak hours, so half of end game is dead, literally. No amount of tweaking is going to revive it now, the only possible thing that could would be w a r m a n e getting shut down.

If you don't care about PvP cool, have fun afking with transmogs rping with the other 10 people in dalaran, waiting for your guild to login 4 hours a week to clear the 5th time nerfed raid content.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Yea dadstop, at least in this post you dont talk like one with half a brain as in the previous.

Regardless, you mean those who abused certain trinkets one shotting people due to the sp scalling and such?
They quit? Okay.

You think nothing would save algalon other then wmane shutting down. Why are you in this thread then?
You spammed that pvp section with your obsessions sufficiently there is no need to move here and do the same.

Got anything constructive?

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
Learn to read halfwit

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
or do what warmane does. Make a pvp server like blackrock with a free 80 and free gear, link it to alagon so you get a horde of rele scrubs you can pawn in your bis gear :)


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Dadstop acting like a misunderstood entitled 'veteran' ... lmao..
Read your trash?
You've got nothing, your are inconsequential.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Yea dont take dadstop seriously , thats all he is capable of.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
The wyrmthalak trinket was one of those abused items years ago there were quite a few.
Deathstep is probably one of those who exploited in arena back then and acting like a purist and innocent today.

Should just ignore him and instead keep those suggestions coming.

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