Topic

Second Era ideas.

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
Hello, I wanted to make a post regarding the news about the future of the server so people can give GMs more extended feedback than just a survey.

In my opinion the soft reset is not the best option. I don't know how they will implement it, but I can imagine something similar to the Herald achievement, when you can't enter a raid if you have more than certain iLevel gear, and the gear you already have will unlock when you win it again. I can also imagine that they won't allow crafted gear to enter for a while either for this same reason.
All of this is great and I have no problem with it, but there are some things that are not addressed in this system, like the economy in the server. Even if everybody have to go through everything again, there will be still a big gap between current and new players regarding gold and mats.

I voted for a new realm because I really think is the best option for the server. Probably this server has already had some "generations" of players, people that achieved LoD in the pass and left for other adventures, people that has lately got it, and people that is currently going for it. I think it would be great giving all these people a posibility to go at it again, but taking also in consideration the new influx of people that a fresh server always brings. That mix would make this server more alive than ever.

Regarding to the date of the opening of that new realm, I don't know how the releasing of Classic will affect the private servers community, but I would take that into consideration so all the hype will be put in here. I would open it in the beginning of August or after October.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts, and I would like to hear from everybody so GM know more about what we think or what we hope for the future of the server. Thank you all for reading.

Irenya @ Kirin Tor
Irenya
1 Draenei Paladin
0
Hi!

while i agree with some of what you say regarding a new realm, I would hate to lose all my farmed rep, achievements and the like. I've no problem with going back to lvl 1 or zero gold and mats for that matter... it's just the time spent hunting achievs, reputation, mounts and the like that rubs me the wrong way. I haven't been able to participate in all world events for example, and i'd love a chance at that for example.

I wouldn't move to a new server and do it all again, it's painful and honestly i'd quit playing and go back to single player games tbh... there's a reason one covets his characters and does all we do for em.

So I voted soft reset, hoping to keep my achievs and rep. The rest, i don't mind at all =)

Koraa @ Kirin Tor
Koraa
1 Troll Shaman
0
I get that your achievs and mounts are the most important thing for you but quiting the game because you lose all that you must be nuts. First of all it's all cosmetic i get it you have spent time for it but what i understand is that you are very attached to this things so doin it again shoudn't be a problem.
There is a big demand for woltk servers and this one might be the best if they are goin to do it properly, i feel like the classic hype will fade after 3 mounths. If they decide to release a new realm next year is the best option.

Koraa @ Kirin Tor
Koraa
1 Troll Shaman
0
All the wrath servers that i have played got something right, but in some regard they failed.
There was a time on this server when population was peaking both pvp(arenas,bg at 80 ofc) and pve were very active at that time the only problem was the delayed content.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
This Second Era 's purpose should be twofold.
To retain current players and to acquire new players.

High level, to achieve this it would require that both vanilla and tbc parts of content be brought up to the same level of quality that the wotlk content is at.

1. vanilla content patch (quests ,items, instances, raids)
2. tbc content patch (quests, items, instances, raids)
-to support those first two points, to encourage and promote player engagement add lv 60 via site for DP.

3. Lv 70 arena enablement ( currently disabled)

4. As an overall platform and to further promote the previously mentioned 3 points : revamp/update the site and the dp/vp shop to reflect this Second Era's stated goals.


Lurtza @ Kirin Tor
Lurtza
1 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Lurtza on 2019-08-15 21:54:31
New realm:
1.2x exp until 68 or keep 1x but from time to time make 2x exp events
2.PVP REALM (that being said site needs armory + pvp ladder; Pvp was cool here but it died because of win traders) take PVP in consideration.
3.Keep the atunnement system (this was the best thing about the server)
4.Make an official discord server and be active on reddit
5.Release server December or even next year so that classic hype dies (there is an big demand for wrath servers this might be the best one if done properly so better take your time and release when everything works as it should be)
6. Introduce transmog (this is just a side note because i see alot of people that want old raids to be alive so i suppose this will make it so. I guess instead of staying afk on dala stairs they can run old raids and dungeons that will surely keep people busy)

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
No new realm(s).

Yes for cosmetics.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Do you really think the server will get new players just by introducing these so called "vanilla-tbc patches"? I hear your call, I can understand it, but I fear it will only please our resident twinks. At the same time, you seem to not give a f**k about the wotlk content, since you are against the launch of a new realm or a raid reset. So, while you enjoy your old content, our lvl 80 chars should forever be freezed in the icecrown citadel-ruby sanctum patch with a dead pvp scene. Fair enough! So much for the best WOTLK private server.

Remuerto @ Kirin Tor
Remuerto

1 Undead Rogue
0
Soft reset, Hard reset, New Realm... nothing of this will matter if there is not an actual plan to get people to join. Algalon is one of the best scripted private WotLK servers (if not the best) and still there are massive issues related to faction disbalance, lack of raids on one side and afk BiS toons on the other, bloated prices and crazy economy, Bots and farmers, no pvp other than casual 70-79s BGs.... this is all due to the fact there is not enough people.

- I honestly believe there should be, first of all, a call to Developers and Moderators who can support the whole project. People who help fix things, who take care of hackers, cheaters, exploiters and farmer bots. The actual team seems shorter and people feel discouraged when their problems or reports receive no answer.

- After that, a good plan for a Second Era, not just based on a small enquiry but considering what made this server and others great and what made them fail and vanish.
PVE > To me, Progression is key. It's what makes this server great and what got so many people in other servers. But people know this expansion inside-out, so forcing a new system like Ulduar's Herald for all raids could be an option. I could go as far as even suggesting a hard progression with ALL dungeons and raids in the game, including all expansions. Although it sounds a bit extreme, content would be be duplicated this way.
PVP > New system of arena seasons, for 70 and 80. I mentioned it before, items available in Arenas should pair those existing at the start of every arena season. What makes no sense is finding teams with an afk guy in blues and a 6.5 rogue that oneshots you the moment you enter. There should be regulations and actions taken to avoid wintrading and shady stuff. I've seen "spectator mode" on other servers. Or Arenas could be limited to some specific days/hours. Hardmode option: only using PvP gear (except for weapons at start). Maybe the best teams of each season could take part on some special Tournament and access to titles and prizes. I would not allow, in any case, all the 277+ items that came out at the end of season or later in RS. All this would make it more enjoyable for all. These rules could be of course much more flexible for BGs, since the goal is to have as many people as possible and as many BGs as possible.

- And finally, a good advertising program to call players to join. This should be donde considering playerbase needs and experience, as well as dates, retail WoW, Classic and all that. Design of a calendar with specific events, open threads to consult players and encourage discussion, create anticipation on players and possible visitors.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
@panofsky

Not sure what you mean when saying that i dont give a fuck about wotlk content.

Right not the wotlk content is in a very good shape. For the greater part things work as intended.
It is whats broken and left to rot that needs fixing.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Romuerto you are practically suggesting a reset/relaunch of the realm with conceptually the same pitch as it was in 2014.
Thats not gonna cut it.
Unless they take a more holistic approach ,this new coat of paint would fade real quick.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Panofsky you say that 80s are stuck with icc and rs right now.
Do you want loth to roll out cata ? Do you want loth to create custom raids to be placed after rs in the sequence?
Would those things please you?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 10:37:39
@Arakis
I am not talking about the quality of the wotlk content. After a while, killing the same Icecrown Citadel bosses, over and over, becomes a bit boring. And we haven't got many options to fill our time while playing in this server, because, as I have already stated, the pvp scene is dead. We are talking about a progressive realm. I know, there is the attunement system, but right now a new lvl 80 player can be easily boosted trough Naxxramas, Ulduar and ToC by his ICC geared guildies. You can't expect a progressive realm playerbase to forever be frozen in the same patch. After a while, they will leave, looking for something fresh.

@Thoraf
Of course I don't want the realm to progress trough Cataclysm, neither to launch custom raids. I want a new realm, with the chance to port our toons there (with some ilvl restrictions), where the progressive realese of the raids will be much faster and they will focus a bit more on the pvp side of the game, to encourage a fair competition, in order to attract new players willing to join the endgame content. Therefore we will have a much bigger population. And Remuerto isn't just suggesting the launch of a new real with the same concept they had for Algalon. Like me, he wants more attention given to the pvp side of the game (with real arena seasons) and a more hardcore attunement system, based on gear restrictions. I also agree on ilvl gear restrictions for arena matches and the chance to use the spectator addon, so we can keep an eye on those wintraders.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-08-16 13:49:21
@panofsky
At least we got custom raids and cata out of the way.

Then is a new realm that you want.
It would seem that there are many who dont want this exact thing. And of course i dont know how many however ,since a survey took place it meant that it was kind of know to the admins that this section of the players is considerable.
It would be detrimental to the server to ignore a good portion of your most dedicated players , especially since the population is so low.
It will be much clearer when the server results are shared of course.

You have to understand, this realm is a snapshot within wows lifecycle. It is natural that eventually people would become content starved.

A new realm is the wrong answer, and a bad idea.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-16 14:07:56
With a new realm opened this current one would esentially be killed off . Then you would be left with a new deserted server since many would simply not roll with it.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Arakis

I don't even know why you are talking about Cataclysm or custom raids. I've never mentioned them, only Thoraf did. Since my first messagge I've mentioned only the launch of a new realm and the raids reset. I wil tell you this: should we really consider the opinion of our current (low) population if our goal is to reach a bigger one? Shouldn't we focus more on why we have lost so many players down the road? And by "players" I mean those willing to play the endgame content, not the twinks.

@Thoraf

It's a risk we may have to face but since our population is becoming lower by the day, we haven't so much to loose. I know other private servers have failed after the launch of a new realm but if they invest some recources on a good advertsing and they wait until there is a high demand for a fresh wotlk progression, the risk can be worthy. Introducing few changes to the concept, like those pointed by Remuerto, can increase our chances to win the lottery.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
@panofsky

I think you either dont get the points hes making or you just refuse to acknowledge out of vanity.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-16 16:17:17
Oh and it make zero sense to simply give away what you have i.e paying players for this supposedly new crowd .
Is like... Makes no sense man.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-08-16 16:26:49
Cata and custom raids came to mind when you complained that you are stuck with icc and rs.

I see you are atempting to discredit arguments you are in oposition with by labeling as pariahs or some kind of unwelcome annoyance certain groups of players.

At this time i will point out to you that regardless of what precisely players choose to do on the server ,they are equally valuable. At the same time a donators dollar is equally valuable if he raids ulduar or faps while fishing in nagrand.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
"This Second Era 's purpose should be twofold.
To retain current players and to acquire new players.

High level, to achieve this it would require that both vanilla and tbc parts of content be brought up to the same level of quality that the wotlk content is at.

1. vanilla content patch (quests ,items, instances, raids)
2. tbc content patch (quests, items, instances, raids)
-to support those first two points, to encourage and promote player engagement add lv 60 via site for DP.

3. Lv 70 arena enablement ( currently disabled)

4. As an overall platform and to further promote the previously mentioned 3 points : revamp/update the site and the dp/vp shop to reflect this Second Era's stated goals."

THIS!

Also panofsky wants to be risky.
Alright panofsky, why is your opinion more valid than someone elses? What make it more valuable? Why do you wish for a portion of the current players to no longer play here?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
All who seem to want either a new realm or a reset seem to be unable to formulate how precisely would those things cause the population to increase.
Those are shitty ideas but still id like to know what those peoples views are.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 18:06:23
@Arakis and Dachia
I think my opinions are more valuable because they are related to the wotlk content and we are playing in a wotlk server. I would be called autistic if I express my opinions while not supporting them in the first place! I already stated that I can understand your opinion, I would like to see our resident twinks happy but I fear that's not what we need to increase the server population. I mean, Dalaran WoW is known to be a wotlk server. If you search info about this server on the internet, that's what you get: awesome wotlk raiding experience (being it on reddit, social media, youtubers, streamers etc etc...). The twink community is a very niche one, so I don't really get how we can hope to get many new players just by fixing the older content.

@Thoraf
You are amazing, dude! You are calling shitty the very same ideas our developers came up with, when they organized the survey. I have already mentioned the reasons why the launch of a new realm, with the inprovements proposed by Remuerto, would get new players and increase our population. Fair and healty competition given by a renew pvp scene, with proper arena seasons (which is exactly what you are asking for, at lvl 70). A more hardcore attunement system with ilvl restrictions and the chance to feed the need of a fresh wotlk progressive experience. I hope I have enlightned your mind, clouded by your doubts.

P.s.: the two may come togheter. Nothing stands against the chance to launch a new realm with the fixes you are asking for (vanilla and tbc patches) and the improvements I would like to see applied. Chars can be ported from Algalon to the new realm so you will not loose your precious twinks.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-16 18:18:29
Ok so at least that part is clear, you ARE in fact special. Kay,good stuff. We are playing on a wotlk server , and it IS understood that northrend things would have priority - which they do!
I dont get why you keep beating the dead horse.
I have all the right to criticize ,or wait, am I not special enough?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-16 18:29:09
Heck is not the twinks even, is the six 80s with 6k gs and their achievements. The twinks are the cherry on top.

Running two realms is an absurd concept, what point is to run 2 dead servers?

Edit: maybe i misunderstood, you dont want 2 servers but this one closed and a new one opened with all this stuff rolled into it?
Like, really? You actually legitimately think such a thing is plausible?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-16 18:57:14
@Serenna

So, you have six lvl80 chars above 6k gs. I am happy for you. Well, you will have the chance to port them to the new realm, you will not loose them. Maybe you will loose only your gear. Is it a gearscore matter? Because I am not one of those who like to afk the entire day at the Dalaran Bank Stairs just to show off. Aren't you getting bored by raiding Icecrown Citadel over and over again? Aren't you getting bored by the fact that you can overgear an amazing raid like Ulduar? I am about to complete my Shadowmourne quest on my warrior. It will be the very first time I achieve that damn legendary axe in a legit way (I've never shopped it in any other wotlk server). Still I would be happy to throw it into the trashcan if I can get a new fresh realm.

And by the way, they are already running a dead realm, which is Kirin Tor.

I don't know, they can choose to run the new realm alongside Algalon and let the players decide if they want their chars to stay there or to be ported. Algalon would definetly loose part of its population but we may have a new, more populated realm. I know it's risky. Another wotlk private server has fallen after the launch of a new progressive realm but we can learn from those mistakes and not repeat them.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Yea i feel enlightened beyond doubt now that panofsky has blessed me with his deep and educated strategic thinking.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
A new realm with ported chars is a worse idea than a fresh start realm with x1 xp.

As for my 80s, i havent done icc since it released on here 2 years ago. No i dont afk on the stairs, im quite active actually just not doing lv 80 centric things. Occasionally i do take the 80s for a spin of course.

If alternatives besides lv 80 stuff didnt exist here i would have quit two years ago.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
I can't wait to read your business plan, Thoraf.
No need to be so salty, it was just a metaphorical joke.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
No saltiness going on.

This starts from the premise that the server is in a difficult time, a crisis if you want.
The owner(s) ability to keep up with the times and with the community and the devs ability to make due with very few options are ultimately the deciding factors.

A new realm falls in the high risk bucket. In many business scenarios high risk ventures are counterbalanced by a high reward.
To keep in mind, this type of scenario is influenced by many factors and
any miscalculation can easily lead to complete failure. Also this is a position of exposure, there is no cushion to fall back on to, no plan B, is all in.

What we've got here is a situation where there arent many options, is a stagnant realm, a snapshot within wow. A niche audience to cater to, a very old game
running a very old patch on a 'private' server where the niche playerbase mix changed over the years.
This sort of all in approach is a sort of luxury that cant be afforded due ,but not limited to:
- Overall player support for such venture does not exist.
- The overall population is so low that any splits in it would mean collapse.
- The nonexistence of an external factor to sharply and positively alter the numbers of players i.e. molten shutdown.
- The existance of an external factor that negatively impacts server population - Classic launch.
- The already mentioned low count of potential creative options that may substantially improve the situation.
- While this is debatable as we dont know , in fact, what the owner(s) plan is. Nonexistence of both a short and a long term plans
that would complement each other, function in tandem.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-17 15:33:36
As far as what to actually do:

Re-launch dalaran wow as the "complete wow experience on the 3.3.5" patch.
Notice the difference, notice the pitch does not center around the northrend raiding or northrend content.
Instead it wants to invite players to experience wow in its entirety, on a 3.3.5 patch.
It is too little and too late to only care and cater to and for solely northrend.
A more wholesome experience expands the options the devs have a little bit,
it gives prospective new players a entire world to play in, it offers increased variety and it appeals to a wider audience.
As part of this 're-launch' ,this same realm would be reset and here is how:
Implement the package as Arakis suggested:
-tbc content patch
-classic content patch
-60/50 via site for dp. the actual level here does not matter as long as it gives quick access to end game classic/ start of tbc.
-lv 70 arena
-revamp the site/shop.
Existing chars would be 'labeled' as 'first era' and newly created chars as 'second era'.
To preserve and promote the competitive aspect of lv 80 activities specifically, 'first era' and 'second era' chars will not be able to join lv 80 raids or lv 80 pvp together-ever.
FE chars will still exist the way they are now, they can raid or pvp together, gear remains intact etc.
While all existing chars will be labeled FE ,the FE and SE raiding/pvp restrictions would only apply to lv 80 toons.

This approach tackles pretty much all pros and cons of all the suggestions so far, removes no chars or gear, uses same realm, offers something to everyone including a fresh start.
Most most importantly, it offers a whole fully scripted, bug free, new world to play in.



Is your turn now to formulate and show us how a new realm would be a good venture.
show us how would opening one would affect the community and show us what is your projection regarding dalaran-wow 6 months after a supposed opening of said new realm.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
omg ... this please ffs..

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
I have read every post since I opened this thread, and this last one from Thoraf I have found it very interesting since it would be a solution for those who don't want to lose their characters and say that they won't play in a new fresh server.
I still find some of the problems I mentioned in my post with this system, though.
Would it still be a fresh server appealing to new players, one that has people with maxed professions, lots of emblems, gold, etc? How would that affect the economy?
Would those players accept if they clean everything except the mounts, per example? Would new players join a "new" server where some players already have Invincible, per example?
I am not sure about any of these questions, but it made me think.
Thanks for all the feedback you guys are doing, I am sure it is helpful for everyone, including the developpers.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 18:00:46
@Thoraf

You are leaving out a big question: why should anyone be interested in enjoying the entire wow content in a 3.3.5a patch server? Because frankly, no disrespect, but this forum is the very first place where I read someone being interested in such a gaming project (interest mostly coming from you, Serenna, Arakis etc etc..). Back in the days, Blizzard offered you the chance to play only one kind of patch on retail servers. So, if you didn't play on retail WoW when the fist version of the game launched, you could experience the older content only from a later prospective (for example, killing Ragnaros with a lvl 80 char or a wotlk twink). But we are talking about the private server community. Every player now has the chance to download different versions of the game and:
- enjoy the vanilla content in a 1.12.1 server
- enjoy the tbc content in a 2.4.3 server
- enjoy the wotlk content in a 3.3.5 server etc etc...
Some private servers has offered a longer progressive experience, starting from a lvl 60 cap up to lvl 80. But in the end, the real core of the project has always been the wotlk content. As a player, I would be more interested in clearing a TBC raid with my char acting like a TBC char, with those given abilities, rotation, talent trees etc etc Otherwise, my experience would be altered by the changes applied by the later expansions. Someone would say that it would be easier...

Now to the First Era and Second Era char concept: no offense, but it's like to launch a new realm, without the chance to port your Algalon chars inside said new realm. You would divide the playerbase from those willing to play their old chars and those willing to play the SE ones. You may tell me: they can do both. I would answer: just as they can play in both realms. Sure, the population would be bigger, but still it would be splitted in half.


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 17:55:45
Last but not least. You have pointed out the risks connected to the launch of a new realm. I would like to answer a few:
- we definetly need to take in consideration the launch of Classic WoW. As many of us have already stated, we should at least wait until the Classic hype has diminished. Vanilla is a much grindy-er version of the game and many players, who will try it for the first time, may become exhausted after a while and look for something more casual-friendly, like a wotlk private server.
- you have mentioned the molt-down as an example of a external factor which can positively alter our population. As of right now, most of the wotlk servers (at least the most famous ones) have already reached the final step of the progression or they haven't been able to live up to the community hype. One of them has even been shut down, some have seen their population fall down to much lower numbers we face now on Algalon. From this point of view, Dalaran WoW is considered to be a positive exception to this derailing trend. We should really be greatful that this server is still running after so many years from its launch. So, right now there isn't such a great competition and we may be able to deliver the fresh progressive experience many wotlk fans are waiting for.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Gargola maybe I am reading it incorrectly or maybe I read just what I want. It seems you are overlooking half of what I said.
I have tried to come up with something substantial, something lasting that affects all player sections and does not exclude anyone.

Anyway, now to the concerns related to badges, gold, profs and such.
Since, as far as 'end game' raids and pvp FE and SE chars practically live in distinct bubbles ,things like badges have zero impact. There would be no competition in that regard.
As far as profs, I would go easy on that front and be considerate of the current players while at the same time not interfere with the economy, leave it as is and let it develop on its own.
As far as mounts and stuff like that, I doubt a new player looking to raid icc fresh along everyone else and understanding what FE and SE are ,would care about those who cleared years before. I dont find some mounts as consequential.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky.

I take no offense, I am not easily offended.
You list like , what, 3-4 people who as you say like this approach.
Go check out the lv 60 via site thread in the general section of this site, you may count 20 or more there plus a mod acknowledgement. Does a particular number make you feel better or are you trying to (again) discredit an idea not by its real worth but by side stepping, distractions and placing labels?

I dont find much concise reasoning in your post and so I will leave someone else tackle it.
I will just say that you clearly can't see or don't want to see the bigger picture. Can't say which it is but I mean, is not like this has not been explained in other threads on this forum.

"You would divide the playerbase from those willing to play their old chars and those willing to play the SE ones."
You would not divide players, you would divide chars between 'eras' but you will continue to have everyone in one place - catch the drift ?
Do you understand that by doing so i.e. having everyone in one place, you retain people?
People who will today not get into the SE, may get into it tomorrow BUT you have them close you don't essentially reject them - do you understand?
So no, it is very much unlike having a new realm open.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Now just quickly responding to two points.

"You may tell me: they can do both."

Of course I would and I am.
However what is key here, you tell nobody to fuck off, you treat everyone with consideration.

" I would answer: just as they can play in both realms. Sure, the population would be bigger, but still it would be splitted in half. "

You can answer that and it will be the wrong answer. And that's fine, is your opinion whatever. One of the problem is that, in fact, they would not play in both realms. What you would see is many leave and at the very best, you would have a dead realm and an almost dead realm. Like, 'deader' than what we've got today.

Anyway bud, make an effort to think outside the box and also tune those critical thinking skills.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-17 19:38:14
yup i'd roll with this complete wow experience on the 3.3.5 patch.

-my toons and gear are safe , check.
-current realm is preserved, check.
-new, fresh start, check.
-new awesome content and things to do, check.

Please take my $

Oh and panofsky, do you have something against me agreeing with this ?
I understand thoraf isnt special enough but what about me?!

Gárgola @ Kirin Tor
Gárgola
6 Draenei Priest
0
I wasn't overlooking it Thoraf, maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I liked your idea, I was just trying to play devil's advocate and find some flaws in it that I think would be retrimental to the player experience. I am still not convinced with what you told me.
Let me explain. Per example, a player who has an old character an decides to try the new experience with a new one could have the mats and professions to easily craft some gear ready for the just released new content, deminishing the challenge of some fellow raiders that go with him. In the long run it wouldn't really matter, but in the first steps of the progression it would deminish their experience of it, in my opinion. In terms of badgets I was again thinking in terms of professions, allowing players to craft primordial saronite gear when they release ICC.
Maybe gold is not as important as the rest of the things I mentioned but it would still affect economy if there is a huge gap between some of the players.
One way to solve all of this would be making an ah separate from the old players to the new ones, and not allowing trades from old players and new ones, or being in the same guild.

Maybe I am overthinking things but I thought this was something to take into account.

After thinking about all of this, and reading what Panofsky said, I think he may be right in the split population. It is true that all would be playing in same realm and that would be great in terms of socializing in global chat, but I think that would be all. You can't join same dungeons, or raids, so time waiting for raids would be similar for old players. Maybe more if some go trying the new experience, maybe less if old players come back.

Again, I am just trying to find the best possible solution. If I don't mention other things that you wrote in your post is because I probably agree with them.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-17 21:09:01
Hey gargola,

Excluding the primordial saronite/higher tier crafts point you brought up I see the gold/crafting aspects marginal as far as overall impact.
Keep in mind that as far as SE is concerned, there should be at the same time strict gs restrictions and other tier restrictions to prevent (among other things) the usage of 'higher tier' crafted gear brought over from FE.
To make it clear, the things I have already mentioned are just a presentation of FE/SE all in very broad strokes, there will be gaps and errors.

Regarding the comment on split population.
Upon the release of the second era, the realm would host two meta groups.
1. the FE group
2. the SE group

The restrictions on raiding and PVP would be only for lv80 end game, worth mentioning again.

I believe you are talking , again, about lv 80s and you say :
"You can't join same dungeons, or raids"
Exactly , that's the whole or most, of the point of having a restart right ?

Then you continue:
"so time waiting for raids would be similar for old players"
And that is their choice, they choose to not participate in the SE.
They may refuse today but may join tomorrow, the idea is that as a server, you leave the door open you don't burn any bridges and let people make their choices.
One thing you seem to overlook is not including in this equation a number of some newblood.
Sure, people who have quit three years ago may return but keep in mind that we are trying to also get to those who have never played on dalaran as well.


Forgot to mention something on the said 'gaps' between players.
Consider this, a brand new player arriving on the server would be at a disadvantage relative to one who has been here for six months, correct ?
This established, how is your comment on 'gaps' relevant?




Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 21:17:44
@Thoraf

Sorry but I don't consider 20 or more players a realistic picture of our community. Numbers are still too low on both sides but that's not the point. Sadly this forum hasn't been really active since a couple of years or even more. Truth be told, I am quite surprised to see how many serious threads have been opened lately.
It's the second time you don't know how to answer to my objections about the "entire wow content experience in a wotlk server" concept. Take in consideration that I am not against the release of those "vanilla-tbc" patches. It would definetly add something new to our server (even to a new realm) and please many resident players. I just don't consider it an attractive factor for the new players.
To have both FE and SE chars in the same realm would not be so different from having two separeted realms. With the only exception of the economic system, since you seems to believe that FE and SE chars should be able to trade and share the same auction house, the population would be split in different eras. And I think this would detrimental for some players.
For example: I've taken advantage of the free istant lvl 70 feature to level up a shadow priest. Should my guild be in dire need of a caster dps, I would be able to switch roles from my fury warrior and help them in the progression. But what if my new SE char couldn't join my FE guild in the progression? In this case, wouldn't be better to have two separated realms? Or at least, we should let the players decide, but that would be quite messy.
And I don't think that the launch of a new realm would mean a rejection of our old players. I don't want Algalon to be left to ruin just because of that.
Your project is definetly more "wotlk-friendly" than the mere introduction of a vanilla-patch, I will give you that.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 21:31:39
@Serenna

Funny thing is, you would be able to achieve all those goals even with a new realm:
- my toons and gear are safe, check (nobody will force you to port them in the new realm)
- current realm is preserved, check (the two realms can coexist, Algalon souldn't be left to ruin just because a new realm has been launched)
- new, fresh start, check (I guess I don't need to explain why)
- new content, check (nothing stands against the idea to release the so called "vanilla-tbc" patches on both realms)

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky ,

You actually don't see it, pretty sure now it isnt that you dont want to see it.
So because I think that I will explain one more time, just for you, and take it piece by piece.

" I don't consider 20 or more players a realistic picture of our community."
I also don't consider you the spokesman of our community.
So what ... whats the point of your statement?

" Numbers are still too low on both sides but that's not the point."
Which sides are you talking about?

"Sadly this forum hasn't been really active since a couple of years or even more. "
Okay

"Truth be told, I am quite surprised to see how many serious threads have been opened lately. "
Do you like strawberries?

"It's the second time you don't know how to answer to my objections about the "entire wow content experience in a wotlk server" concept."
Please go ahead and ask the question one more time, had no idea you asked something like that.

"Take in consideration that I am not against the release of those "vanilla-tbc" patches. It would definetly add something new to our server (even to a new realm) and please many resident players. I just don't consider it an attractive factor for the new players."
Yup

"To have both FE and SE chars in the same realm would not be so different from having two separeted realms. With the only exception of the economic system, since you seems to believe that FE and SE chars should be able to trade and share the same auction house, the population would be split in different eras. "
Those two things would be like... a world apart.
If you open a new realm it means you force stuff down peoples throats.
If you let them stay on the same realm it means you are considerate of their time and support to the server.
You, would like to force people into doing something, because you feel like it or because you think you know best.
I, would prefer to let them choose.
THAT is the central difference between the FE/SE model and the new realm model.

"And I don't think that the launch of a new realm would mean a rejection of our old players."
Okay, who said all veterans would reject it?
In fact, I know for certain that not all would. I also know for a fact that many will.
Again, I don't see what you are trying to say here?

" I don't want Algalon to be left to ruin just because of that."
It will die off weeks after opening a second realm.

"Your project is definetly more "wotlk-friendly" than the mere introduction of a vanilla-patch, I will give you that"
My heart is filled with joy.





Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
@everyone

Contrary to your belief, I think we are starting to meet eachother in a middle ground but maybe we don't feel the same way.
I think both sides have explained very well their different point of view. Now it's up to the devs to decide (or to explore new paths we haven't considered yet). Unless someone will come up with new ideas, this conversation may become a bit redundant.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
K.





You still dont get it.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Oh comon, Thoraf, give me a break!

I don't consider myself the spokeman of our entire community. Neither you should. 20 people inside a private server forum? Do you really consider them a relevant fraction of our playerbase?

I was obviously talking about these sides:
- those who approve the launch of a new realm
- those who are against it and/or approve your project

Good job on dodging my argument about the alts.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
You act as if you were.

I am not dodging , whats the question?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-17 23:39:45
Unless you give the chance to choose, when a new char is created, to toggle it as FE or SE, the FE chars will be left to die, since they will be able to interact only between each others and their guilds will not be able to fill their ranks with new chars/players. Which is exactly what you fear will happen to Algalon should a new realm be launched.

And I think it would be a quite hard feature to add for our devs.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
This isnt a question, is a statement.

Ive tried to decipher what you are trying to say, hopefully I got it right.

There is no toggling. Once the supposed new era starts, all newly created toons are labelled SE.
The lv 80 FE chars would only be able to do lv 80 raids and pvp with other lv 80 FE chars. So again, this rule would apply only to 'end game content'.
They would be free to do any other content with anyone regardless of era as long as it is not 'end game content'. What do you mean with "left to die" ?

If a new realm were to launch then groups of PEOPLE, okay, not chars will be split.
People would be split between the two supposed realms, meaning instead of 20 people playing now on algalon you would have say 10 moving onto the new realm and 10 staying.
Out of the 10 on algalon some will move to the new realm eventually, some will quit for being essentially abandoned by the server runners and maybe half a person will stay on for a singleplayer experience.
Do you get it now, what's so difficult?



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
"And I think it would be a quite hard feature to add for our devs."

So then might as well close shop, because you know ... "is hard" .
What do you mean with this ?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Panofsky on 2019-08-18 00:15:41
They will be left to die because players come and go. There isn't a real "stable" playerbase or do you really think all the players will still be running around here for an infinite time?
If all the new chars will be labeled as SE, given some time the FE chars will not find someone to fill their guild ranks, their raids.

When I was talking about a difficult feature to add I meant the "toggle FE or SE" one.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
And just because a new realm will be launched it doesn't mean the devs will leave Algalon to die. Just because it happened with Kirin Tor (which wasn't a progressive realm by the way, but just the starting base for the Dalaran WoW project, a normal wotlk realm with all the content already released) it doesn't mean it will happen again with Algalon. It wouldn't be even the first private server running multiple realms.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
People being split? Why? They would just click on the freaking "choose realm" button!
We already have players playing on different servers at the same time. Or do you think that those who play here do not know how to change their realmlist file?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
A new realm is a bad idea, BAD.

The principal reasoning for having a FE/SE type of segregation is to allow for a reset on progression. The secondary reasoning is to preserve FE chars as they are today.
The tertiary reasoning for a FE/SE model is to keep people together while THEY figure out what THEY want to do with their time while on the server and at the same time preserving algalon.

Due to those three reason the FE/SE model is net superior to a new realm model.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Panofsky, with each additional post you make you become less and less coherent.
Is it late where you live, do you need to go to bed ?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Panofsky do you like strawberries?

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
panofsky, if ur bored make a new char... not that hard. If u dont like raiding ulduar with 6k carries...dont invite them...not that hard aswell

Also if they gonna make a new server wich i am allowed to bring my twinks to but have to strip my 80 chars to blues....well then i am gonna play mop or warmane.

Maybe stop crying start playing? over 700 peeps online today on horde side alone so the dead server drama is mostly in your head.

If u like 80 pvp transfer to ally and que up. There is enough hordies waiting for you :)
I will heal you dont worry

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
ow and that fe/se idea is not bad. But just give new chars a choice if they wanna be either fe or se. People who want to play progression can do it hardcore then and the rest just normal business as usual.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
See?
Obro has sense, choice is good. Forcing shit on people is not good.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Actually that should work.
Basically a new toon would either belong to either FE or SE and can be done only once at lv 1. Something like those nps in the capitals that lock XP, talk to them and they would flip the toon to FE, just need to add it to each starting area right at the initial spawn location.

So it would go like this:

1. make new toon ( comes standard a SE char)
2. talk to said npc at lv 1 (if you level past lv 1 you get stuck with SE)
3. switch for free to FE

Voila!


Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-18 11:23:08
Here's my viewpoint.

Why you would want a new realm:
Will hopefully attract a lot of new players.
Hard reset of the economy. (No more duped money in circulation)
All players will be on an even playing field.
Almost no coding/work required.

Downsides to a new realm:
Will lose more old players than a soft reset.
Can't be sure new players stick around.
Will lose character levels, titles, recipes, mounts and other collectible items including items from the donation shop.
Will strongly incentivize players to leave Algalon and realisticly kill it even if it takes a little time.


While there are some clear upsides to a new realm i must say that there are a lot of downsides as well.
So as i see it either we try to reduce the amounts of downsides of making a new server or we bring some of the upsides of a new realm into the soft reset.
Because i've heard that people are adamant about keeping their items I'm going to explore the soft reset option.

With good timing and some well placed adds getting new players should still be doable even without a new realm. So it's not a huge obstacle for the soft reset.

The same can't be said about the economy. The problem is that there basicly are no great soloutions and therefore the ones i've come up with will have flaws.
My most obvious fix would be to give the players a fair warning before you delete all gold with the start of the new era. This is a pretty brute force soloution and certainly won't fix everything since the rich players will spend their gold on items that have value even after the gold deletion. But that is also why it isn't completely unreasonable.
A different approach could be to allow players to trade in large amounts of gold for donation and/or votepoints. I am not sure about the exact conversion rate, but it would only be targeted at the very richest players on the server to try and drain some of their massive amounts of money out of the economy.

When it comes to advantages outside of gold I'm sure there are ways to make sure that emblems and orbs (frozen, runed, crusader and primordial saronite) are gated off so that players won't be able to craft every item for every player on the release of a new tier.

The downside to all of this is that all the work you put into a fancy new system is work you're not putting into other issues such as a vanilla/tbc rework or just general bug fixes of which there are plenty remaining.



On the subject of a FE/SE system i don't see why you would spend time making a system to split people inside the same realm. As i see it either you make a new realm for a proper reset or you keep people together on the old realm. Why would you spend a lot of work on a middle way with no clear advantage over the other options?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Thanks for the contribution vigilance.

The advantages of a FE/SE model are as follows.

- clearly identifies and segregates chars depending on players choice.
-allows for the player to retain the FE toons unchanged.
-it does not split people or groups, it splits characters.
-provides for the need of a reset
-preserves algalon and the current playerbase

This is not a middleground, is keeping everyone on one realm , with changes.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Another advantage in having a FE/SE system would be that say every year following the SE release ,a new era could be rolled out easily no hassle.

But again, the realm needs a rebranding , needs to offer more options to people as far as game activities.

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
TLDR improve the overall pve and PvP by policing the community and making the server bug free. Everything else is trash

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Amazing. They bash me but still they agree with me and they come to the conclusion players at least need to choose if their new chars should be labeled as FE or SE. Never seen such incoherent people. Make peace with your brain, guys.


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Obro

The true purpose of this thread is to bring ideas about the future of our server. Therefore, informing me that 700 players are online on the horde side or suggesting me what to do with my free time is the most stupid thing you could come up with. I will definetly not take these suggestions in consideration.
I have never said that this server is dead. I have only said its pvp scene is dead. Please, learn to read and rielaborate.
The only people crying on this thread are you and your friends, who are afraid to loose their precious items. Even if I have written 1000 times that nobody will be forced to port their chars from Algalon.



Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Panofsky and dadstep ,

You two contribute nothing to this thread.
Clearly, you both like strawberries.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
New realm is the worst idea possible.
And dadstop, why so dense?

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-18 14:18:23
Lol panofsky....

We dont want any stinking porting , we dont want a new realm.

The crying one is you complaining about lv80 pvp at every possible opportunity.
Obro was only trying to help you because you clearly need it.

You are in no position to even speak about others and their chars. You joined recently ? Do you only have one valuable toon?
Well , ill break it for you and tell you that many are in a different league and dont want to see their time spent turn to nothing.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Arakis, please. You guys are just licking each other ass.
The only one who has come up with some interesting, but still debetable, ideas is Thoraf.
Your only contribution is that hilarious "vanilla-tbc" patch, and you will keep asking it like a whining child until the devs will give you an istant lvl 60 feature. So fucking obvious. And try to elaborate something different, that "strawberry" joke is old already.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Serenna

It seems you need to learn how to read, just as your friend Obro does. While aswering to a previous Thoraf post, I've already written that I've leveled a shadow priest using the free istant lvl 70, should my guild be in dire need of a caster dps. And that's only one of my alts (I've got a dk, a leveling warlock and a rogue, plus my main warrior). I am quite sure that I am not an altoholic like you but why should it matter? There is no stinky porting to be used if you don't want to. Guess it's a really hard concept to understand.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Lol dadstop came to troll us and now you feel hes got your back.

Listen warchief, there is no ass licking happening , is just a forum.
If you cant handle it , go away.

My contribution is half of what thoraf presented.
Your contribution is half of zero.

For the love of thrall, PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
So like wtf , playing multiple toons is out of style or something?
Do we need to copy you to be trendy?
So you arent just special but also a trendgiver, damn boy!

Panofsky for warchief!

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Learn how to read, I've already done it multiple times.
Your contribution is not even 12% of a plan. The FE-SE concept is a huge step foward, since it includes, at least, a wotlk content reset but it still has some flaws.

The problem is that you guys can't live with the fact that someone can disagree with you. I can handle it, that's why I've written that this conversation was becoming a bit redundant and now we should leave the devs to decide or someone else to bring different suggestions.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Look warchief,

The conversation does not end when you say so.
It ends only when/if the thread gets locked by a mod.
Until such thing happens, you have to live with the fact that someone might still have something to add.

The problem is that you are a poor conversation partner.

Are you going to show us why and how a new realm is the answer?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Obviously I am in no position to decide when a thread should be closed, we could have just spared humanity from reading your last posts, Arakis, but you keep goin on.

"It ends only when/if the thread gets locked by a mod."

And I guess this is what you are looking for, since you have run out of arguments.

I'm still trying to understand which kind of autistic logic you have used to write your previous post. Do you understand that "altoholic" is not an offense but a generic and neutral term used to describe someone who has many alts, right?

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
lol i make 1 tread and this is the salt i get :) whatever panofsky i love you as you are

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
panofsky are you trying to join the forum meme club?
As for the autistic comment, I would not open that can of worms if I were you.
Don't take jabs at people unless you are prepared to be hit back, is how it works.

Arakis's suggested portion regarding the tbc/vanila stuff + the lv50/60 via site is a vital component of the 'new era' or whatever you wanna call it.
It is vital because it adds long term sustainability to the realm, because it contributes at enticing certain newblood to join and it offers many existing players more stuff to do.
So in all, it adds huge value to the realm, makes it better, more rounded.

Since tbc+vanila content is over 50% of the game's content (3.3.5 patch) how in the world did you come up with 12% ?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
panofsky,

For the love of thrall, PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Oh and yea, that 12% comment, whats that ?


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
For the love of god, guys, it was just a famous movie reference. But should I be surprised that you couldn't get it?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Dear warchief,

Are you going to answer the question?

PLEASE tell us why is it a good thing to have a new realm.

Tell us in an educated fashion, and in your presentation clearly identify pros and cons and have coherent answers to all the points.
Also please use paragraphs so is easier to read.


Thanks

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
I am sorry, Arakis, I am honored to be called "Warchief" but that seat has already been taken by the only true Hero of the Horde, Trueotmin.

Before you take this seriously, people use to call him Warchief in the horde global chat.
Cya guys, I wish you all the best nonetheless.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Yes, otmin is loved by all, misunderstood by many and a great warchief at noon on Tuesdays.

I was looking forward to your candid response re: 'new realm' but alas...

We love you too and wish you all the best.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0

pls dont go :(

May your days be long and your hardships few!

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
After the arena rewards were withdrawn from the last 2 seasons for wintrading the entire PvP community quit, I remember sitting down and doing 6 hours of arena on this sever at a time and never waiting long for a queue, the last time I tried to queue here we sat for 2 hours to get 4 games during a weekend and peak hours. Now bgs only pop during Eu peak hours, so half of end game is dead, literally. No amount of tweaking is going to revive it now, the only possible thing that could would be w a r m a n e getting shut down.

If you don't care about PvP cool, have fun afking with transmogs rping with the other 10 people in dalaran, waiting for your guild to login 4 hours a week to clear the 5th time nerfed raid content.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Yea dadstop, at least in this post you dont talk like one with half a brain as in the previous.

Regardless, you mean those who abused certain trinkets one shotting people due to the sp scalling and such?
They quit? Okay.

You think nothing would save algalon other then wmane shutting down. Why are you in this thread then?
You spammed that pvp section with your obsessions sufficiently there is no need to move here and do the same.

Got anything constructive?

Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
Learn to read halfwit

Obro @ Kirin Tor
Obro

20 Human Paladin
0
or do what warmane does. Make a pvp server like blackrock with a free 80 and free gear, link it to alagon so you get a horde of rele scrubs you can pawn in your bis gear :)


Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Dadstop acting like a misunderstood entitled 'veteran' ... lmao..
Read your trash?
You've got nothing, your are inconsequential.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Yea dont take dadstop seriously , thats all he is capable of.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
The wyrmthalak trinket was one of those abused items years ago there were quite a few.
Deathstep is probably one of those who exploited in arena back then and acting like a purist and innocent today.

Should just ignore him and instead keep those suggestions coming.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-20 14:18:34
Realized something today...
How come on the survey there was an option to pick "do nothing"?
Maybe that wasnt the precise wording but surely, there probably isnt someone on the server thinking that doing nothing is any good....right?

I mean, people disliked the other two options greatly and were forced to click" do nothing" as a result , so that doesnt count.

I think it would have made sense that instead of an 'option' stating 'do nothing' , it should have read 'none of the above' or 'something else' ... Right?


Deathstep @ Kirin Tor
Deathstep
4 Dwarf Paladin
0
All your RP shit isn't wanted by the majority of the community, they came here for a blizzlike server. The staff need to work on the important things first, everything outside of pve and PvP is quite literally trash.

All those hundreds of custom servers are dead, no one plays them for a reason.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Hi spokesman of the community.

Wtf are you talking about?


Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Can you share any data showing what people would like done on/to this realm and what activities they enjoy?
When making such bold statements you must have hard data to support them.

Otherwise you would look like an idiot, just saying.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
So far ,up to dadstop, people on this thread have only touched on pve and pvp. There is none of that 'rp shit' anywhere in any of the comments.

Also he doesnt have any data ,he is an idiot.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
People saying shit , having no proof but expecting to be taken at face value.
Is like on here, majority this, majority that. Heck it may be true but show proof, facts. If not, dont be so bold.


Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-20 23:27:40
Figured I would repost the suggestion we could come up with so far since it may be getting burried by bullshit comments that have popped up since.
Thanks to Panofsky and Obro for pointing out a particular aspect that needed adjustment and Arakis for part one.


Re-launch dalaran wow as the **complete wow experience on the 3.3.5 patch**.

Notice the difference, notice the pitch does not center around the northrend raiding or northrend content.
Instead it wants to invite players to experience wow in its entirety, on a 3.3.5 patch.
It is too little and too late to only care and cater to and for solely northrend.
A more wholesome experience expands the options the devs have a little bit,
it gives prospective new players an entire world to play in, it offers increased variety and it appeals to a wider audience.
As part of this 're-launch' ,this same realm would be reset and here is how:

1:
Implement the package as Arakis suggested:
https://www.dalaran-wow.com/forums/community/general-discussion/topic/12200/lv-60-option-via-site
- TBC content patch.
- Classic content patch.
- 60/50 via site for dp. The actual level here does not matter as long as it gives quick access to end game classic/ start of tbc.
- Lv 70 arena.
- Revamp the site/shop by adding functionality,new additions, forum improvements etc.


Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
2:
FE=first era
SE=second era
- Existing chars would be 'labeled' as 'first era' and newly created chars as 'second era'.
- Newly created chars will be SE by default but the player would be able to apply a one time switch, only at level 1, and 'revert' that character to FE.
This could be done ,for example, via a npc stationed in each starting area.
- To preserve and promote the competitive aspect of lv 80 activities PVE and PVP, 'first era' and 'second era' chars will not be able to join lv 80 raids or lv 80 PVP together-ever.
- Concerning the usage of certain items coming from FE chars and potentially benefiting SE chars.
An ilvl mechanic would be put in place to prevent the said usage by 'making a check' on those items ilvl vs the ilvl of the tier that specific SE char is in at the time.
- FE chars will still exist the way they are now, they can PVE or PVP together or with any non 80 SE toons, gear remains intact etc.
- To clarify ,while all existing chars will be labeled FE ,the FE and SE raiding/pvp restrictions would only apply to lv 80 toons.

This approach tackles pretty much all pros and cons of all the suggestions so far, removes no chars or gear, uses same realm,
offers something to everyone including a fresh start that can be re-rolled at a later date as the server owners see fit.
But most importantly, it offers a whole fully scripted, bug free, new world to play in.


Whether you hate or love this, please go ahead an criticize.

Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-21 02:40:41
Adding 60 & 50 boosts seems like a solid option with minimal effort and no drawbacks so I can certainly support that.

Improving the website in certain places doesn't seem like a terrible idea, but in my opinion it should be done in the spirit of "if it's not broken don't fix it" or saved for later. My reasoning for this is that I don't view it as being very high on their priority list. Obviosly i might be wrong here since it's been a while since i used the website frequently and i'd love if you could point out exactly where they should make improvements.

I'm not against a tbc & vanilla content patch and i think it would be neat to play on a server where you don't encounter bugs while you level or perhaps even raid, but here is where we probably fundamentally disagree. Personally I'm playing on this server for the WotLK experience which means i value any endgame activity such as raids, dungeons and PVP in Northend leagues above any endgame content from vanilla or tbc. On top of that i would go as far as to say that i wouldn't mind some bugs while leveling if it means that the lvl 80 endgame has received more attention instead. And i know that i'm biased, but i feel like this is a pretty common opinion. After all i chose a WotLK server. If i wanted vanilla content i would have chosen a vanilla server.
I just want to stress that i do want bug fixes in vanilla/tbc and i even think it would be a good idea to make them if Loth decides that old characters should not be allowed into the new progression, but i wouldn't make a complete overhaul of quests, dungeons, raids etc.
Same goes for the lvl 70 arena except there might be some extra problems:
- Splitting the playerbase
- Sufficient engagement

Now to the FE/SE idea. I can see that you've put some effort into it, but here is why I don't think it is a better option than either of the obvious ones:
1. A new realm
2. A soft reset system, but without splitting the characters.

A new realm would from my perspective mean that i "lose" all my cool shit since i won't be able to bring it with me to where the party is at, but it has the upside that the economy will be completely reset and it will take barely any work from the developers.

A soft reset would mean that you would have to put in a good amount of work into figuring out how to limit old players without completely removing everything. It would however mean that you get to keep at least some of the coolest things that you have been working for and as a small bonus it wouldn't kill of the old server even though i'm sure a number of players will still quit. My guess would be that you would be able to go into an infinite cycle of soft resets while improving on the various systems along the way. This would bring in new players and incentivize older players to go for completionistic goals like hoarding as many mounts, tabards, items etc. as they would like to, knowing that they will get to keep them through the future soft resets.

And then there is the FE/SE where you still have to put in the same amount of work or more to implement it compared to the previous mentioned soft reset. You also get some of the same downsides as a new realm would have without the reseting the economy and the very low amount of work required.
The downside that I'm referring to is that even if you technically get to keep you character and cool stuff it will effectively be locked away just as much as if it was stored on a different server. Now here's why:
Just as a new realm would kill the old one SE will kill FE. Eventually this forces you to level a new toon or quit. To me that seems pretty similar to what would happen if you set up a new realm.
It certainly is possible that I am wrong thinking that i should be able to use my old characters for the new progression, but as long as i don't have a clear advantage i don't see why not.

Exactly what would need to be reset and gated off in the soft reset is very much up for debate and i personally think that is where we should spend our energy. On top of that I think that with the amount of gold on the server that some sort of gold reset should be discussed as well.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 13:46:52
Hey Vigilance,
Im not trying to make everyone happy, making all groups content should be good enough.

Yes a quick 50/60 boost ,cheaper then the lv 70 is a real easy thing for sure and like you say no drawbacks.

When mentioning the website, couple things come to mind:
- armory.
- the ability to see your donation history and item purchase, a transaction history of sorts.
- a marketplace
- forum updates with post voting and stuff like that.
I am sure there could be more things to list here.

TBC and Vanilla

"Personally I'm playing on this server for the WotLK experience which means i
value any endgame activity such as raids, dungeons and PVP in Northend leagues above any endgame content from vanilla or tbc."

I think lv 80 stuff should have priority over anything else and that was never the discussion.
That said, it does not mean that the rest of the game's content (tbc and vanilla) should be treated like a dead weight or like an annoyance of sorts.
When I say this I mean it in context. The context, and I want to emphasize this, is that of a wow experience frozen in time. The wow story cannot 'progress' on here,
it is loccked and over once the LK is downed. The implication is that players, in general, will run out of things to do much faster if they play say 20% of the games content instead
of experiencing closer to 100%.
The tbc and vanilla content patches are specifically aimed towards prolonging the 'life' of the realm. Are also meant to convince the player that it is worth
checking out said content, that value exists there. Another aspect has to do with the apeal that said overlooked content may have for a prospective new player, which at
a later time may be enticed into the lv 80 progression mechanic.

Realistically a complete overhaul of TBC+Vanilla content would be out of scope but fixing major issues with the lv 60 and 70 raids should not be that big of a deal in comparison.
When you couple this with the boosts, you basically offer a nice alternative for some and a nice time sink for others.
In both cases is a pretty awesome feature, im sure you can see that.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 04:56:45
As far as the lv 70 arena.

Here is pretty much as with everything else.
Say you have player A that is 'dedicated' with lv 80 arena and donates 20$.
You also have player B that is 'dedicated' with lv 70 arena and donates 20$.
Who is more valuable? Equally, both I say.
It offers options to the players, potentially attracts new people to the server, more donations.
And is just contributing towards having a vigorous community.
If a guy joins because he knows that here lv 70 arena works and the server is amazing in general, how does that occurence affect the lv 80 arena community?
Further to this, if an existing lv 80 arena player wants to try out the lv 70 arena, would that be a frowned upon thing to do?
I mean, while wotlk was live on retail, lv 70 arenas were activelly happening. So it is in fact blizzlike to have lv 70 arenas and not blizzlike to have them dissabled.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 04:58:32
on the fe/se model.

You say the following in sequence:
"a new realm would from my perspective mean that i "lose" all my cool shit since i won't be able to bring it with me to where the party is at"

"the downside (to the fe/se model) that i'm referring to is that even if you technically get to keep you character and cool stuff
it will effectively be locked away just as much as if it was stored on a different server."

"just as a new realm would kill the old one se will kill fe."

A FE/SE system would mean among other things that the new era or the new season could be rolled out indefinitely.
Will take an example and say that every year in december dalaran-wow rolls out a new season. Once the new season starts all 80s who have progressed in the previous season will be
moved to the 'original' season, the FE, and a new generation of seasonal toons emerges.
The implication of it is that the 'FE league' will be supplied with new toons every year and therefore that legue will not be collecting dust nor be locked away.
In practice, the SE and the eras/leagues after it, will feed the FE.
If you open a new realm on the other hand, well in that case yes the chars on algalon would be locked away,collect dust,die ,whatever.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
In conclusion, the FE chars are very much linked with the SE ones in all but one aspect - the lv 80 end game, pvp and pve.
The FE pool of chars or the 'original league' would continuously be fed with new chars each new season and also serve as basis for the realm's char pool.
For this reason, a FE/SE model is far superior to a plain new realm thing or a so called 'soft reset'.
- You get to keep the cool shit ,you bring it with you to the party.
- The char is not collecting dust since there is an influx of new toons coming regularly and therefore an active league.


Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-21 13:53:59
Yo Thoraf.
As far as the 50/60 boost, website upgrades, tbc/vanilla fixes and lvl 70 arena i can agree on and the only thing i would discuss further there is in how high priority they would have. But seeing as that is completely up to Loth i think I will leave it be for now.

That brings me back to FE/SE yet again. While i can certainly see where you're going with this system I simply think it comes down to:
- Leveling new characters is a chore and something i would like to avoid if possible.
- Older accounts would get full of FE toons until you either delete them or make a new account. You could probably make a system to prevent this, but that is even more work.
- If you're forced to change your characters to do new progression it would split up mounts and titles between them and I'd prefer if i could keep them together.
- Either FE will be completely dead and incentivize players to quit when rotated into FE or it will split the playerbase.

My best guess is that the influx of players into FE every 2 years or so would not be enough to sustain a community of players. Personally if I had to choose between farming ICC/RS every week or joining the progression i would pick progression in a heartbeat even at the cost of my old characters. Obviously some players would stay on their old toons and that is nice for them, but here's the kicker: Why do we have to choose between playing our old toons or progression?
Wouldn't it be better to not split the community?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 14:22:24
Hey vigilance,

Id say the entire thing is all up to loth, up to and including closing down shop.
As far as the content pack ,even if is done in smaller batches ,it still adds a great deal of value to the realm.

On the FE/SE.
I tried to explain its seasonal character as best as I could, hopefully I delivered.
I still believe there is value to this system and is worth exploring.
You do make great points.

In time, accounts will become saturated with FE chars, it will be up to the player to make the decisions.
Leveling is a chore but I feel a new season/era should include that.
I believe is preferable to have someone play its FE toons instead of incentifying the same person to quit.

Edit. The player would not be pigeonholled into anything.
It would be entirely up to the player to choose seasons or not.

What sort of system do you have in mind, what feature would it have?




Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
A realm wide cash purge done at the beginning of a new season would be great as well.
I also think a season shouldnt be longer then a year and be a lv 1 to icc race. Forcing a reset on the currency as well as having the season participants at lv 1 would be pretty close to an actual new beginning.

Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-21 18:41:26
Hey Thoraf,

What i tried to explain is how i believe that the FE/SE system would lead to more people quitting.

What i imagined was a system that would allow for fresh progression while allowing you to do so with your old characters.
I'm sure there are several ways to implement this, but here is how I imagined it could be done:
You make a system to store your items without allowing you to withdraw them before you're allowed to by Loth. Depositing will be completely disabled. I'm thinking a modified guild bank system would do the job.
You also need a system to automatically transport all relevant items into this bank system when you reset the server.
So how it would work is when Uld is released it would allow you to withdraw your Naxx items and so forth. That way you will never have a clear advantage during any progression.
There will be some technical problems to do this like:
- Some people might have more gear than would fit into a guild bank and you would have to figure out a soloution for this.
- Actually making a system to transfer items automaticly from scratch.
- Unique items
Obviously this would require quite a lot of work and i'm more than open to suggestions.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 19:56:17
Hey hey

I just think you dont want to level chars again lol...
Jokes aside, at least now I get what your idea is.
Good luck pitching that to those adamant about getting a new realm.

To me , a reset means lv1 again along with all participants.
Since I believe a new realm is a bullshit idea and a 'soft reset' is much too little, I had to come up with something creative that tries to solve most of the greater issues.

How are a new realm or a 'soft reset' better then a FE/SE system,
I still dont get since it is practically solving or improving on most issues that the other two options have.

Stil, id like to read more on what do you think the reception would be on doing the progression again on the same toons.
Also more details on the mechanisms behind it would be nice, as well as your opinion as to how it will solve the most obvious issues.

Vigilanceme @ Kirin Tor
Vigilanceme

1 Orc Warlock
0
Edited by Vigilanceme on 2019-08-21 21:00:32
I mean if you insist on starting from lvl 1 while staying on the same server FE/SE is probably how you would do it, but it seems like Loths original plan was to let people play their old toons for the new progression. Having put in a decent amount of time played into my toons already that does seem pretty attractive to me.

This second progression would allow our community to relive again the content of this expansion that we all love so much, from Naxxramas to Icecrown Citadel. But, on top of that, they would be able to join such a journey with the characters whose feats they have been developing for so much time.


And while I can see why a lot of people aren't sold on a soft reset I think it does have a lot of potential if implemented correctly.
The general tactic for private servers have been to just open a new realm and let people frolic around until one way or another the server dies out. Rinse and repeat.
An obvious disadvantage to this is that any effort you put into your character will eventually be insignificant. I can't speak for other players, but that is a big reason why i never bothered with hoarding mounts etc..
With a soft reset any farming you have done and will do remains until the server dies instead of until the next time the server resets.

When it comes to the reception of a soft reset people will probably be sceptical at first, but as long as it isn't filled with bugs it shouldn't impact the overall reception negatively. After all algalon already has the atttunement system. So why even implement it? Over the years a lot of players have left dalawow and i can imagine a good portion left for other servers. I'm just guessing that a lot of those players at least would check out the soft reset since they don't have to put in a lot of effort to do so and who knows they may even stick around for a while.

When it comes to how a soft reset will solve issues the system i proposed will probably not be enough alone to recreate the feeling of a fresh realm.
So on top of the soft reset system you would want to remove anything that would give players an unfair advantage. Gold, emblems, honor and such would be the top priority, but i'm sure there are things i haven't thought about yet. In the future i don't think there will be a need for a gold reset, but currently some players have enough gold to pricefix the entire auctionhouse. And that will end up being disruptive for new players.

Achílles @ Kirin Tor
Achílles
of the Nightfall

80 Human Warrior
0
There is too much fuss over matter of FE/SE, it can be quite simple though.

Most of the players want new realm, but how do you keep players from old realm?
- Open transfers from Algalon to new realm after all the realm first class/race/profession achievements are taken
- Let us keep the gear we already have, but lock it for starters so you can't use it and have advantages over other players.
- Unlock your saved gear only after Realm First achievements for that current instance are taken (Naxx gear for Naxx/Ulduar gear for Ulduar)
- No idea how would you split your current gear with another unique item (let's say you had an item saved in FE for Ulduar, and then you get the same exact item in progression, how would you equip it if it was labaled as "saved" in your stash already from FE while yours is from SE)
- Allow us to only transfer essentials, meaning no primos, crusader orbs or what else not so we can't make an advantage with professions and a maximum of like 10 000g
- Algalon shall probably die after transfers, and is gonna be a wasteland like Kirin Tor, but you keep the player base in one place and progression once again starts all over.

Nah I'm telling you, Loth has a plan already and he's gonna reveal it soon (2021 hopefully) and it's gonna be fine

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-21 23:36:58
@ vigilance.
Not that I insist, it just that it feels natural to start a new journey from lv1.

As far as that loth quote ... well what can I say, I dislike it but can't say how much yet.

@ achilles.
I have no idea how you figured that most want a particular thing.
You might have an inside scoop on the survey results or some other info we are not aware.
If not, then it is a guess and has to be treated as one.
Speaking for myself, the people I have spoken to and the people theyve spoken to, are quite split on things. There doesn't seem to be a clear cut majority among the most important schools of thought and many are quite adamant about their own version of whats best.
Whats pretty clear is that the player mix is no longer the one from 2014 and that should speak volumes.

"Open transfers from Algalon to new realm after all the realm first class/race/profession achievements are taken"
The only issue is that by the time achievements are all out of the way, there might not be a population to transfer over.
Also, I wouldn't underestimate the psychological factors. Many would feel betrayed in a sense by the 'server' ,knowing they are not included in 'the next big thing'.
Why would one donate for years just to be pushed aside later down the road?

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
Keep in mind that we should also try to get new players and both "FE/SE" and "soft restart" options look like something which would indeed please the resident players but don't seem to be really attractive for those who have left Dalaran WoW or those who have never tried it.
It would be quite a fail to just see the same players leveling their new toons or progressing again through the wotlk content with their old ones. A new realm would look like a more natural option and it would be easier to advertise. But before someone calls me Warchief again, that's just my opinion.

Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
@Thoraf

Rumors say that the "neither launch a new realm nor do a soft restart" option has been the most chosen one. But that's just rumors...

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
hey sup panofsky.

No more warchief fine, so be it.

I dont think the right answer is to prioritize a group over the other i.e. the resident players vs newblood. As soon as you do that it means you fail hard in some other area(s) and I dont think that's a good idea.
Like I said in some previous post, is better to kinda make all parties content and improve on the go one thing at the time, then go balls deep in one direction and fail in the opposite.

"Rumors say that the "neither launch a new realm nor do a soft restart" option has been the most chosen one. "
LOL
Dude that's ... golden, but still just rumors.
I wonder if loth will ever share the results, like .. the actual results of the survey.


Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Oh and someone said this :

"How come on the survey there was an option to pick "do nothing"?

So the options were:

1.new realm
2.soft reset
3.nothing

like .. why ?!


Panofsky @ Kirin Tor
Panofsky
10 Night Elf Warrior
0
To be honest, I would not be surprised if the rumors are confirmed. If after so many years these players are still running around I guess it's also because they don't want to lose their toons, gear, achievements, mounts etc etc...
I used to be one of those but since many private servers I have played on have been shut down, I've started to change my mind and look at my toons more as a tool and not as my main goal (which is to play with other people in a healthy and stable guild). That's why I still promote the launch of a new realm. But that's just... my opinion!
Moving on, the survey was not limited to those three main options. If I remember correctly there was a blank space at the end where you could add more suggestions.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-22 14:12:54
I can't remember about that blank spot.
See thats the thing there shouldnt have been a random blank spot nor the option to pick 'do nothing'.

Say this survey would happen again today , how could I possibly enter my three paragraph suggestion in there?!

Also 'do nothing' makes no sense unless you treat it strictly as a rejection for the 'new realm' and 'soft reset' options , at least thats how I see it.
'Do nothing' has no value intrinsically.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
I selected 'do nothing' because I disliked both the other presented options , not because I would like 'nothing' to happen.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
In fact, I would like something positive and substantial to happen.

Revena @ Kirin Tor
Revena

1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Edited by Revena on 2019-08-22 14:42:02
Scenario 1: Nothing happens and the server slowly loses players. You could polish lower content but I think the gains to population would be marginal.

Scenario 2: You "soft reset". Resetting dungeon and raid achievements, gold, emblems, honor, ilvl lockouts, etc. You gain some players. You lose some players.

Scenario 3: New realm. You gain new players. You lose some old players.

What we need to consider is what do we care about more. New players? Old players? I wont claim to have any idea on which of the former makes up the majority of the current population but with whatever the decision will be people will quit.

Personally I don't care what the decision is. I enjoy playing this server. Will it suck to start over and lose all that I've worked for? Sure. Will I miss the people that quit that I would consider my friends? Sure.

We easily forget that we chose to play on a private server and that all of this could be gone in an instant.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-22 15:19:19
The cold pragmatism, but hey , is all true.

That said , I did make a suggestion which mitigates much if not most of the downsides associated with your listed scenarios.
No criticism on that?
Check it out!

I dont think there was the discussion on the finite character of things. All things material that come into existence ,will fade away at a certain point. Including 'private' wow servers ..lol
Who would not be aware of that?!

Revena @ Kirin Tor
Revena

1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Without writing a novel

FE/SE would be hard to implement. Dalaran-wow isn't known for its fast and perfect coding (no offense staff I know you do your best). And the result of this system being implemented would have the same effect to the server population. People would quit and some would join. So why go through the amount of effort that entails when you can just open a new realm or zero out some lines in code to do a soft reset.

Revena @ Kirin Tor
Revena

1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
This thread reads as a suggestion box for what people think the second era should be. My point was we should just be happy the server exists and that anything is being done at all to keep it up. This isn't a blizzard server and being so attached to what you have on characters is a waste of energy.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-22 16:01:17
With that kind of laissez faire attitude , no progress would ever occur in life.
Why would people ignore the existance of clear opportunities?
One shouldnt just give up when facing difficulties , you gotta fight, play to win.

In absolute terms, being attached to pixels is idiotic no matter how you wrap it. However in the context of a gaming community is perfectly normal for one to be attached to their 'cool shit', especially when were talking about years of gametime.

The FE/SE is a long read ,sure. But it has value because it improves on most if not all the problematic aspects that other options have.

Koraa @ Kirin Tor
Koraa
1 Troll Shaman
0
Scenario 3: New realm. You gain new players. You lose some old players.
I think there are lots of old players that stopped playing here and would reconsider coming back for a fresh realm.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
"Scenario 3: New realm. You gain new players. You lose some old players.
I think there are lots of old players that stopped playing here and would reconsider coming back for a fresh realm."

Of course you do, the problem is that you don't actually know how many would return.
Whats even more problematic, is whether newblood will come to a new realm with *exactly* the same stuff offered all over again AND on top of it , stick around for a while.
Is all hopes and assumptions.
Kay so this is what's not known.

What it is known, pretty much guaranteed, is for a portion of the existing 'veteran' players to pass. Another aspect that is pretty much guaranteed, is that algalon will cease to exist essentially.

So you got a situation where groups of people are driven by their personal preference to militate for a particular school of thought, and in that ,risk fucking it all up.

Why not have all on the same realm, keep everyones shit the way it is and switch to a seasonal progression model where all participants start from level one each season?
Why not?
You would get close enough to an actual 'new realm' setting AND everyone gets to keep their shit AND more stuff on the side.
Why not?




Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-23 02:23:33
Also with a FE/SE system, the progression will not get stale as it will refresh with each passing season. It would feel 'newrealm-like' .
The same problematic situation, such as the one were currently in, will never occur again because the rolling seasons will take care keeping the lv 80 stuff fresh.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
A new realm is an unnecessary and an unreasonable risky option.

A plain progression reset on the same realm is far too insufficient and it isn't improving/fixing/adding anything.

It is possible to get much or most of the positives from of both those merged into a comprehensive rethinking of the server.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
@panofsky

A seasonal FE/SE model would offer to a prospective new player looking specifically for wotlk end game activities , the following:

- The opportunity to start fresh on an established realm and race to ICC by going through a great progression mechanic.
- If the same prospective new player is PVP oriented, they would have the opportunity to enjoy a reset on the end game PVP since all participants would be on equal ground (lv1).


Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-23 15:46:24
- The realization that even if the boat on current season is missed, they can just catch it in the next.
Meanwhile they can simply play the game and know that since their chars would later be moved to FE, they will then be used to support future seasonal toons.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
- The realization that end game activities will be fresh in perpetuity , since each new season brings a new beginning.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-23 23:59:15
Repost.

Thanks to Panofsky and Obro for pointing out the SE->FE switch flaw, Arakis for part one and Vigilanceme+Achilles for helping to better
articulate the seasonal character of progression.

Re-launch dalaran wow as the **complete wow experience on the 3.3.5 patch**.

Notice the difference, notice the pitch does not center around the northrend raiding or northrend content.
Instead it wants to invite players to experience wow in its entirety, on a 3.3.5 patch.
It is too little and too late to only care and cater to and for solely northrend.
A more wholesome experience expands the options the devs have a little bit,
it gives prospective new players an entire world to play in, it offers increased variety and it appeals to a wider audience.

This 're-launch' contains two parts:

1: The dead content revival package & site improvements.

2: Seasonal Progression.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
1:The dead content revival package & site improvements.

Implement the package as Arakis suggested:
https://www.dalaran-wow.com/forums/community/general-discussion/topic/12200/lv-60-option-via-site
- TBC content patch.
- Classic content patch.
- 60/50 via site for dp. The actual level here does not matter as long as it gives quick access to end game classic/ start of tbc.
- Lv 70 arena.
- Revamp the site/shop by adding functionality,new additions, forum improvements etc.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-05 18:46:35
2:Seasonal Progression.
FE=first era
SE=second era
- Existing chars would be 'labeled' as 'first era' and newly created chars as 'second era'.
- Newly created chars will be SE by default but the player would be able to apply a one time switch, only at level 1, and 'revert' that character to FE.
This could be done ,for example, via a npc stationed in each starting area.
- To preserve and promote the competitive aspect of lv 80 activities PVE and PVP, 'first era' and 'second era' chars will not be able to join lv 80 raids or lv 80 PVP together-ever.
- Concerning the usage of certain items coming from FE chars and potentially benefiting SE chars.
An ilvl mechanic would be put in place to prevent the said usage by 'making a check' on those items ilvl vs the ilvl of the tier that specific SE char is in at the time.
- FE chars will still exist the way they are now, they can PVE or PVP together or with any non 80 SE toons, gear remains intact etc.
- To clarify ,while all existing chars will be labeled FE ,the FE and SE raiding/pvp restrictions would only apply to lv 80 toons.
- The cash on the realm gets wiped out at the start of each new season.

'Eras" would in practice be seasons which refresh the progression in the 'end game' and come in a sequence at set intervals of time.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
This approach tackles pretty much all pros and cons of all the suggestions so far, removes no chars or gear, uses same realm,
offers something to everyone including a fresh start that can be re-rolled at a later date as the server owners see fit.
But most importantly, it offers a whole fully scripted, bug free, new world to play in.

Ripvanwinkle @ Kirin Tor
Ripvanwinkle

70 Draenei Hunter
0
Why are you so mentaly attached to gear, achievements, gold? Does it make you feel good, strong, smart? It's a game not a social platform. What do you do if you beat the game? You either quit, or start from a new save.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-24 14:18:39
If it is a single player rpg, rts, fps sure you can save and start later .
Wow is an mmorpg meaning massively multiplayer online Roleplaying game.You play a role in vast world, online with many people at the same time.

You see the difference ?

One would become attached in time with their toon(s) because those are in a way, an extension of themselves in the world they are playing. You can call it immersion.

Ripvanwinkle @ Kirin Tor
Ripvanwinkle

70 Draenei Hunter
0
Thx for explanation, I never knew what MMORPGVASTWORLD meant, I must be really dumb person and a troglodyte. AFKing on Dala stairs surely is vast world you are talking about. Well ofc, you need to play it whole life cause you exist only in game, we should ask Loth to implement more non retail stuff like player housing, pet and children adoption, maybe even some custom transmog. Heck I would even go as far as crossfaction fashion competitions and dance studio. Pls Loth make Dala second life pls.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-24 14:47:38
Troglodyte LOL
Yea funny shit but still , dont know what you are trying to say.

What I gave you was the 'book definition'.

Do you not agree with the definition of mmos?
Do you not agree that wow is an mmo?

Ripvanwinkle @ Kirin Tor
Ripvanwinkle

70 Draenei Hunter
0
I'm saying that Dala wow won't be friendly to new players if they do soft resets or simmilar stuff. Old players can quit anytime or afk, new players are the ones who keep server alive. There won't be any competition, or server first rushes, or arenas. I own all gear sets on my priest obtainable in game. I can tell others to do the same and we can kill KT the first day, gonna skip dungeons totaly, reach astronomical arena ratings cause you can get gear which requires rating for honor now, and quit untill new content gets out, in that time dala will be empty and totaly not friendly to new players. They will see it as dead server, no bgs or dungeon pops. So we would have dead pvp for sure, and dead pve. And I will just mention multiple accounts ppl have and what they can do with them to ruin balance. Those are my thoughts

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-08-24 15:21:21
Oh so thats what you meant with crossfaction fashion competitions!
Now it all make sense.

I personally dont like any sort of soft reset exactly for the reasons you stated. Is far too little , no fixes , no improvements it would just be a gimmick.


Have you read what this dude thoraf is suggesting? Go do that.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Soft reset variants or new realm are both bad in their on ways , is what ive concluded.
The seasonal FE/SE model is the most robust, value adding and with the most lasting impact.

Ripvanwinkle @ Kirin Tor
Ripvanwinkle

70 Draenei Hunter
0
Yes those beauty pageants. I've read the entire topic. Thoraf suggestion is the most reasonable one, but Idk how it can be executed properly since ppl sturgle with grasping attunement system. Well those old players can still gank ppl in zones with 6k gear. It needs alot of polishing tbh.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Well if people cant grasp the progression mechanic is their problem.
There could be , you know as part of a site revamp, a comprehensive explanation of that subject even with visuals and all the bells and whistles.
But unfortunately were stuck in the 90s, might as well start using mirc and aol again.

As far as the seasonal FE/SE model, the implementation concerns dont diminish its inherent value.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Come on guys, need more ideas.
Criticism is equally welcome too.


Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Hello,
First of all the staff members should ask themselves what they want to achieve with this „Second era“. Is it an attempt to bring more new players or just provide a new challenge for a current player base? I can guarantee to you that solf-reset, fresh realm with transfers from Algalon or any kind of advantage for current players won’t bring you new players (or very little) who would be in disadvantage (no matter how small or big in your opinion) from the get-go.
That being said, I’ve played or at least tried most of the private servers released since 2011 including Dalaran from the start which I quit after empty promises of amory, arena ladder and PvP/arena scene help which some of them were not met up to this date? Yes I’m a PvP player however I don’t player purely arena/BG servers simply because this is just half a game and a same goes for servers which focus on PvE or their PvP scene is simply dead. To relive true peak of WotLK you need both active PvP and PvE.
For the cake of my points, I will assume that you want to create a new realm where everyone who is looking for a WotLK experience will want to play and everyone will start from scratch. Since GDs and RDs new realms failed there is definitely a lot of players that are seeking for a such a realm.


Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Edited by Sunité on 2019-08-30 11:05:05
Couple of my points:
• As stated above, you should first off all include players from outside of your current player base into a discussion of what a new realm should look like.
• Leveling rates – personally I believe ideal rates for WotLK are 2x or 3x EXP. 1x EXP is simply no-go in my opinion as the only server which was successful was Loarderon a very long time ago. People meanwhile got fed up with leveling due to Vanilla popularity. You can see how Dragonblight ended up, even thought it wasn’t just due to leveling rates issue. Sunwell was more of a successful realm with base EXP x2 and 1x from 70-80. Anything which includes instant 60 or 70 is in my opinion bad choice. Generally speaking community sees that as a P2W and more of a fun server-based feature. Even though I’m not a fan of leveling I would try to avoid this for a cake of the server.
• One of the main reasons server die is the length of the first raid tier. Due to many servers died on T7 and S5 tier, people are fed up with this content. Also due to many people rushing through leveling, farming, gearing pre-BIS and ending up just raid logging. I personally believe this could be fixed via some kind of “gating”. However, this is also tricky as I’ve seen some servers failed with execution. Not sure about this – more for a discussion.
• Another way to prevent the server from dying in the first season is a rough schedule, which would keep peoples in check. Let’s say Ulduar release will be X weeks/months after KT kill or any of your likings or straight up timeline.
• Try to balance entry tier with some kind of events, tournaments, challenges to keep population alive and attached.


Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Edited by Sunité on 2019-08-30 11:10:06
• As mentioned and explained above fresh realm without any kind of advantages for current players is the only way to go.
• Release date: Obviously with a recent release of classic it would be stupid to try to compete with that. However, release, in general, should not be summer time. In my opinion November (maybe December or January) is the best – no idea how much time you need though.
• Launch – very critical can destroy the very promising server in a matter of a day. Personally, I would suggest queues over lags/DCs. Ideally nothing at all.
• Well now regarding PvP. First of all the server should be PvP – anything else will just discourage PvP players and as I stated above – you need both active PvP and active PvE for a healthy server.


Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Edited by Sunité on 2019-08-30 11:12:16
• Well now regarding PvP. First of all the server should be PvP – anything else will just discourage PvP players and as I stated above – you need both active PvP and active PvE for a healthy server.
• Active PvP is based on server population and by no means, I’m trying to say that anything bellow 10k pop is a dead server, as a trend is. All I’m saying is that you need a nice player base to have PvP and especially 3v3 active.
• For arenas the starting point is arena ladder and armory. These two are must have end of story.
• Next step would be let’s call it quality of life changes such as arena queue announcer in world chat, pre-arena start crystal, dynamic MMR, arena spectator etc. just from top of my head
• 3v3 arena: I love it and it is usually dead :(. Unless there is a 5k population or very PvP based community. At this point, I believe there need to be some “custom” changes to make it more alive which depend on how far do you want to go. For example: boosting arena points from 3v3, some rewards (gold, honor, etc.?) for playing X arenas daily/weekly, an interval when only 3v3 can be played? Etc. this is more for a separate topic discussion…
• BGs: I would like to see some WSG or AB tournaments which could be very unique to a private server scene. I’ve also seen a very cool feature on a server where they had daily/weekly/monthly BG win ladder on their website – could be rewarded at the end of week, month or season for example (old PvP titles?).
• Also very crucial is to protect the server from scripture. This is a very widespread trend in the last years – certainly big threat to a PvP scene.
• Basically a PvP scene can be brought alive with some “non Blizzlike” features. At the end of a day you need to ask yourself – would you rather have dead fully Blizzlike server or an alive server with custom tweaks and upgrades? I believe majority of my ideas are not against being Blizzlike – anyway what’s Blizzlike nowadays?

Thanks for reading and I hope some points will be brought to life.
Also, I'm up for discussion, for sure one person can’t see all angles.
Best regards.
Sunite

BTW Couldn't put it into one post as the server wouldn't let me...Sorry.


Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
@sunite

I agree in principle with the creative approaches towards making pvp work an making it lasting.
Id be all for it.

However your suggestion is very much pvp centric.
Also, it is not clear how precisely a new realm as you see it would attract and retain new players.
Would you be able to explain and elaborate on that?

Additionally, how would you manage the veteran vs new player situation?
With as much clarity as possible ,thanks.

Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Well,
fresh realms always attract players and even from recent releases Omega and Dragonblight had a couple of thousand players. It is the execution that fails and that leads to the server dying. See the reasons why servers die above.

I mainly addressed PvP because that's the tricky part. Since I did quit Dalaran a couple of months after release I can not say how good or bad PvE scripting is and it would be drastically different after all those years. From various opinions on Reddit etc. it should be good. However, it was said even about Gamer district and Dragonblight and simply put the quality wasn't there. The server either got good scripting or don't you can't do magic in a few months if you couldn't do it in a few years.

Regarding veteran vs new players. I would try to get as much input from the existing player base as well as from potential players from around the internet. Bear in mind that in this topic there is roughly 20 people who are discussing the topic and that is a very small sample - many of you assuming things that they do not have data on. I believe that both options of soft reset or new realm with transfers are bad options and will only damage the population and bring next to none new players.

After all, it's all about how the staff decides to approach. I can only present my ideas as a long-time private server player best to my ability and hope they will be heard.

Kind of makes me wonder that after all those years there is still no armory or arena ladder as was promised even before I quit.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-08-30 17:46:03
fair enough. of course is not up to us , we only share our opinions and make suggestions.


you still havent explained why and how would dalaran-wow attract new players and hold on to them, if a new realm were to open.
how precisely.

as far as getting imput from players, a survey was done a while ago - we are yet to hear on the results.

Busterz @ Kirin Tor
Busterz

56 Undead Mage
0
i think most of the problem today is most ppl thrash the hell out of chars to get em to lvl80 ie dungeons/bg and so on,the whole purpose is to enjoy the game and yes questing can be boring but you get more satisfaction doing the odd bg or dungeon if you rush to 80 its basically game over wotlk was max lvl80 so whats the rush??

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
If you read through this thread or browse the forum as a whole you will notice that most are interested in a particular thing within the perceived 'end content'.
Either pvp at 80 or pve at 80.
God forbid you say you are playing for the journey or something that isn't the above mentioned two options.
The forum wrath would be swift and inevitable.

Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
There was a couple of thousand players for GD, Omega and RG server launch. The only reason they didn't stick with either of the servers is that quality wasn't there. Some died quickly some slower. Those people are still looking for a decent server to play on. So if Dalaran can provide a decent quality server they will come and play here as long as the server is good.

I don't mind chill leveling to 80 however, I also don't like falling behind early. I mentioned this as one of the problems in my wall of text. Nonetheless, leveling will keep you occupied only fo so long you need to have quality content ready when you finish leveling...

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Dalaran doesnt lack quality as far as northrend content.
Is basically everything else thats sub par.
Id say that whats needed is for the vision to be recalibrated.

Busterz @ Kirin Tor
Busterz

56 Undead Mage
0
think they need to just sort all bugs out like targets in walls and underground glitchy quests like at vemonspite then add more lvl80 content and in short not everyone wants pvp so it should be an option only weather or not ya want to do it,im all for progress but perfect what they have first,another option if there servers will allow add the option to add cata into the fold for lvl 80s but only if the player wants to


Hhvj @ Kirin Tor
Hhvj
1 Orc Warlock
0
How about a progressive exp rate? Since for a lot of players low rates are a problem, exp rates could be like 1x on launch, 2x when Ulduar opens, 3x when ToC opens and 4x when ICC opens, or something like that. I'm aware that the higher the exp rate is, the less is the time when a player reach that period when you just raid-log in, I've just given random numbers, they could even be less, like increasing 0,5 per content released or anything you want

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Dachia on 2019-09-02 17:11:15
@hhvj

The problem is features like this one speed up the consumption of content.
Since the story and as an extent the rading tiers dont progress beyond icc on a realm such as this one, we should not make the whole process artificially faster.

This is why end game content should be made more challenging and also why a revival of the vanilla and tbc content was suggested in this thread.

Remuerto @ Kirin Tor
Remuerto

1 Undead Rogue
0
Edited by Remuerto on 2019-09-03 02:34:10
Why would veteran players feel discouraged with a hard reset or new realm? Maybe I am forgetting something, but I believe it's due to the fear of losing:

- achievements
- titles
- reputations
- mounts
- pets
- recipes
- ...

Wouldn't it be possible to clone those players into a new server, as lvl 1, but keeping all those things? Or as 80, if you want, but without gear, materials, raid-unlocks. New players would receive the achievements as they unlock them, older players won't, because they have them already. I've played on other servers where there was a clone-transfer addon that would even keep the exact amount of gold and all stuff in bank, gear, tracked/in progress achievements, honor and arena points... everything! (except whatever you forgot in the mailbox). I think we all should start with 0g, no Honor points or emblems, no gear, but keeping the above mentioned should be possible.
What I want to say is, all those things that are important and people care are NOT AFFECTING TOO MUCH the whole gameplay. Of course having some reps or recipes can help, but I also believe players who grinded those reps deserve to keep them. The whole dungeon-raid progression will be open for everybody and gearwise it will be balanced.

Sunité @ Kirin Tor
Sunité

1 Draenei Shaman
0
Edited by Sunité on 2019-09-03 07:51:28
@Dachia
The revival of the Vanilla and TBC content in which way?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
@romuerto

Achievements
Titles
Reputations
Mounts
Recipes
Professions
Gear

All important in their way but with the gear,professions and achievements particularly important.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
@sunite

Please go ahead and read the post presenting a potential second era containing two parts.

The dead content revival + the seasonal progression.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
@sunite

In the way it is proposed in the "dead content revival + seasonal progression" suggestion.

Scroll up, is a bit of reading but is a solid and consistent suggestion.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-06 04:13:05
Panofsky just realized a thing you said.

A seasonal progression model would in fact be far more attractive to new players than any variations of a soft reset.

They would get a lv1 start, a cash purge, perpetually fresh progression, mostly inconsequential interaction with existing 80s in the context of "end game" .
Is nearly a "fresh realm-like" .

With a soft reset you dont get a lv1 start, a cash purge maybe, progression will get stale once more in 1-2 years, existing lv80s would be intermingled with the supposedly new players.

Huge difference.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Repost.

Thanks to Panofsky and Obro for pointing out the SE->FE switch flaw, Arakis for part one and Vigilanceme+Achilles for helping to better
articulate the seasonal character of progression.

Re-launch dalaran wow as the **complete wow experience on the 3.3.5 patch**.

Notice the difference, notice the pitch does not center around the northrend raiding or northrend content.
Instead it wants to invite players to experience wow in its entirety, on a 3.3.5 patch.
It is too little and too late to only care and cater to and for solely northrend.
A more wholesome experience expands the options the devs have a little bit,
it gives prospective new players an entire world to play in, it offers increased variety and it appeals to a wider audience.

This 're-launch' contains two parts:

1: The dead content revival package & site improvements.

2: Seasonal Progression.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
1:The dead content revival package & site improvements.

Implement the package as Arakis suggested:
https://www.dalaran-wow.com/forums/community/general-discussion/topic/12200/lv-60-option-via-site
- TBC content patch.
- Classic content patch.
- 60/50 via site for dp. The actual level here does not matter as long as it gives quick access to end game classic/ start of tbc.
- Lv 70 arena.
- Revamp the site/shop by adding functionality,new additions, forum improvements etc.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
2:Seasonal Progression.
FE=first era
SE=second era
- Existing chars would be 'labeled' as 'first era' and newly created chars as 'second era'.
- Newly created chars will be SE by default but the player would be able to apply a one time switch, only at level 1, and 'revert' that character to FE.
This could be done ,for example, via a npc stationed in each starting area.
- To preserve and promote the competitive aspect of lv 80 activities PVE and PVP, 'first era' and 'second era' chars will not be able to join lv 80 raids or lv 80 PVP together-ever.
- Concerning the usage of certain items coming from FE chars and potentially benefiting SE chars.
An ilvl mechanic would be put in place to prevent the said usage by 'making a check' on those items ilvl vs the ilvl of the tier that specific SE char is in at the time.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-06 04:23:57
- FE chars will still exist the way they are now, they can PVE or PVP together or with any non 80 SE toons, gear remains intact etc.
- To clarify ,while all existing chars will be labeled FE ,the FE and SE raiding/pvp restrictions would only apply to lv 80 toons.
- The cash on the realm gets purged at the start of each season.
- A season should last about six months.
- The seasons could have varying flavors, they cold be themed in various ways to spice things up.

'Eras" would in practice be seasons which refresh the progression in the 'end game' and come in a sequence at set intervals of time.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Suggestions, criticism or throw me a cookie.
All welcome.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
*throws a few cookies.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
It looks like they want to push through with a soft reset.
I dont get how that would attract new people.

Right now there are about 600 accounts logged on the realm on average/day. A reasonable number I think it would be an average of 2000. That is, 1000 accounts logged in on average daily per faction.

How would a soft reset triple or quadruple the population? Thats my question.

A new player would want to start fresh and compete with everyone participating on a more or less equal ground.
I just cant see how any soft reset variation delivers as far as acquiring new people.


Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-09-06 15:29:30
I think is one thing to be considerate of all players and player groups, old and new , and another to go on fully biased.

I want to keep all my chars and their stuff , however:

If they go with some 'soft reset' it would be a complete bias towards resident 'old players'.
It would practically ignore the conversion of new players since it wouldn't be a fresh start in any shape or form.


Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
It is either that they chose to go with "the easiest approach possible" instead of "the best possible approach" .

Or

They just cant come up with anything better , this 'soft reset' thing is the best they could collectively put together.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Yea dont know which of those it is but it sucks either way.
While i am still around being one of those 600 that still log in, at least I can say that I have stopped donating since a couple months ago.
I really want to get back at it but cant right now because is all up in the air. This can all go south real fast.

Lothloryen @ Kirin Tor
Lothloryen
Staff Member
Hello there,

I will copy here what I just posted in other forum post:



Hello everyone,

Of course, we read everything you suggest here (as well as the mails received in [email protected]). It is really interesting seeing how you develop your thoughts as a community.

We are aware of what needs to be improved, however, this Second Era's announcement will be only focused on how everything is going to work. As stated previously, we are also polishing the current content for a better experience of this new era. We will also need to host a few Beta Sessions in order to check values, difficulty, newly implemented systems, etc.

About the Second Era informative post, it has to tackle many things, it is a totally new system not yet implemented anywhere, so we want to be sure everything is crystal clear and minimize the possible doubts. We keep polishing every idea, as well as trying to find holes within all the possible variations we present. We believe it is a common ground that will please and attract many players (including old and new ones). We have been discussing and developing this idea for a long time already; thinking about all the pros and cons, programming the technical support, features, etc. for nearly a year.

Please, keep your ideas flowing as we like to read them all. But, before you refuse an option, we would like to ask you to have a bit of patience and to wait for the details before doing so.

Remember the first time we explained our idea about how a progressive server would work 6 years ago? Now it is easy to visualize how it works, what it entails and what you will find in it, but the first explicative post was quite extense and detailed.

Thanks for all your words and your interest.



Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-06 17:24:30
Hi Loth, thanks for reading the suggestions and the forum in general.
Are you able to share when approximately this 'second era' post would go up?
Ballpark would do.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-09-06 17:41:47
Also, we were asked to contribute by filling a survey.
We did that.
Will the survey results be shared with the community or will they be kept secret?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Since you guys are in the late development /testing stages of this 'new era' project it would appear as thats the way to go.
That it is a done deal.

Therefore, is it of any consequence that we provide suggestions?
If it is a done deal, why should suggestions be offered going forward, what value would they have?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-06 19:55:58
Yea since is in the testing/polish phase it is implied that its a done deal.
At the same time asking for continued suggestions but what for, entertainment purposes? Lol..
Loth?

Lothloryen @ Kirin Tor
Lothloryen
Staff Member
Edited by Lothloryen on 2019-09-06 21:40:12
At the same time asking for continued suggestions but what for, entertainment purposes? Lol..
Loth?


Your suggestions allow us to see and understand your perspective. If you mention something we did not think about and that could improve the idea we will surely try to adapt it. It is not exactly a "done deal", but the base design (as we did mention here ) goes back to the moment when we created the Progressive concept. If something you suggest will objectively enhance this second era, why shouldn't we consider it?

Nonetheless, as Malkavia mentioned:

Let us show you something different we believe it would fit into our realm and community as a whole, we will hear you and no step will be done if the community does not like it.


If the community does not like our idea for this upcoming Second Era, then we will start an open discussion based on your suggestions.

Thank you.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-06 23:30:15
I am happy to see that you arent abandoning the server and that engagement with the community exists.
There is a lot of hearsay going on and is good that those points were clarified.

I was ready to abandon ship after many years of being here but figured I should at least wait and see how this stage in the life of dalaran-wow turns out.

There is a huge room for improvement, in all departments, hopefully you guys can turn this around.
As far as the community , there is much to be desired, educated discussions are quite the rare commodity.
Please people, speak up, share your ideas and criticism!



Mefri @ Kirin Tor
Mefri
1 Gnome Mage
0
Edited by Mefri on 2019-09-07 16:10:10
Main problem now, as i noticed is: critically low populations both fractions, and even "peak times", this will coz no queue will be completed, no full raids formed and step by step will cause realm become empty. So, yes, Classic released do this mostly. But this is't only reason why do this are happening now... Guess zero pvp 80 lvl does it even more, cause players that done full heroic content - have't got stimul to progress more, and leave realm for that reason - interest goes down. If you look at retail BfA - the reason that players are still play is: release new stuff like pve & pvp. So pvp it's half of game sphere, where players prove their skills and move step by step to highest ranks and raiting. So this is my opinion.

And yes, the release dates of WotLK were: EU / NA: November 13, 2008 - NA / EU: December 7, 2010 (Cataclysm release), so nothing is eternal at our Planet - two years are pretty good to play this expansion with full content, but you can't make it eternal, it will cause of effect of "time stops". So just one generation of players comes, do full content, and leave for next generations - like so :) Just look how it happens with Diablo III: Reaper of Souls at this moment - new seaon? yes! something new? yes! but number of players are become lesser with new sesons income, because players see it all, even with new changes of same items and edit stats - interest fades away, no real new entering stuff. So the people were always like that, it's just human's nature...

Also you did great job to present this expansion like it was in 2008-2010, 99% same expirience.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
D3 is an abomination, garbage.
That game does not deserve to be called a diablo game.

No idea what you are trying to say besides that.

Mefri @ Kirin Tor
Mefri
1 Gnome Mage
0
Edited by Mefri on 2019-09-07 19:04:21
Look at ladder - players still play this "abomination" and with your opinion you're shows disrespect such popular stream-players like Bluddshed, Rykker and Antony Evans... So i agree III part mostly destroy this game, but this compare for how players lose interest while Blizzard been inactive with new storyline, or releasing new part of the game...

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Four months have passed since the survey took place.
Will the results be shared with the community?

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
I hope they will.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
I read that second era original post once again.
Loth said this:

"Now that we are able to fully deploy the remaining corrections, our purpose is to review every dungeon, raids, classes and old issues in order to improve and polish our quality as much as possible before this upcoming Second Era"

Clearly says here that *every* dungeon and raid is being reviewed. So all raids and instances in this game - all.
This is great news or maybe im not reading it properly.

As far as sharing the results of the survey , I can't find where it says that they would do it.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-09-09 23:49:44
I have been here for 5 years or so. Judging by the state of the non-northrend things, can say that the owner(s) do not care about anything other than lv80 stuff. Might as well cut it all out from the patch and start from lv 70 instantly. Why even have this 1-70 annoyance that puts an unnecessary strain on the server anyway?

They dont seem like the type who would look at the game as a whole or at the experience as a whole.
Is all about that 20 percent of content at lv80 and ignoring the 80 percent of content sitting bellow lv80.

I think that when loth said "all" , he meant all in northrend. To them "all" isn't really all ,is more like a relativizied version of the word.

Also, why wouldnt the results of the survey be shared?!

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Yup fair conclusion, hopefully loth can confirm what he said.

As for the survey, I obviously dont know if they will give us feedback or not. I am only pointing out that there is no mention of said feedback.
There could be different reasons for not sharing. Consider for example the possibility that whatever came up on the results was not aligned with what the owner believes to be the right way to go forward.
Ultimately they do whatever they please and sharing results that could be in opposition would not be good pr.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.

Stalin

Lmao

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Why they chose to ignore so much great content for so many years could be anyone's guess.
No clue what was the logical thinking process when determining that playing less content is better then playing more content.
Maybe they just cant fix it, maybe is too much technically to do and they dont have the capability.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
"sharing results that could be in opposition would not be good pr."
Well at least there is a logic in that.
Speaking of content left to rot for no logical reason is an entirely different animal.

Was checking the other day some rep factions like lower city or the consortium. Their quartermasters sell stuff but there is literally nobody trying to rep those up. Dead content, wasted opportunities. They could encourage people to play the game you know, such great quests and stories ...


Vwbeetle @ Kirin Tor
Vwbeetle
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
Edited by Vwbeetle on 2019-09-11 01:10:35
I have watched this thread from the beginning and read all comments.
Im not usually commenting on forums but with the advent of this discussion I decided to chip in.

- The dead content revival package & site improvements -
I would love to experience a proper vanilla and tbc ,on this server, on a 3.3.5 patch.
Sure, I could go to a tbc server however I prefer 3.3.5 and I prefer dalaran-wow, so I would like to have an overall great wow experience here.
In my opinion the reason for the server runners not taking care even a single bit for such a great chunk of content (vanilla+tbc) is that they most likely despise it.
They despise it and kept it in a poor state on purpose in order to funnel people away from it and into the lv80 raid simulator.
Now I raided here, done the raids, went through the progression. Is great and I want the same system of progression to be kept going forward.
At the same time I would love to have alternatives, more options and different ways and areas where to sink my free time.

- The perpetual seasonal progression -
Is quite a creative and bold concept.
There are two points that stick out when I compare this system to a soft reset.
1. The perpetual aspect. Gone will be the days where content will become stale and where the owners would have to think of any sort of reset, the continuous succession
of season would take care of all that and more.
2. The lv1 start at each beginning of a new season. To me, starting a new adventure has to start from lv1. Combine that with a quality vanilla and tbc contents and it would be amazing.

Now I do have some suggestions too but I will leave it at this for now.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
No no, please. Please share your suggestions.


Interesting perspective, you think they leave tbc and vanilla in a crappy state on purpose, didnt think of that .
I think is neglect. Is negligence as a result of not being able to see value in said content.

Vwbeetle @ Kirin Tor
Vwbeetle
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
Alright, you asked for it.

In addition to the points suggested so far id like to add the following two:
1. Removal of rdf bellow lv 80.
2. Addition of a 'cosmetic token' via the shop for DP.

Now before anyone is triggered like a sjw , let me explain.

1. In wows life cycle from vanilla to bfa we saw how the game was gradually turned from an mmorpg into a shitty arcade game with the wow logo. The introduction of rdf is a major factor in this and its removal would improve the community overall and return to the players the game's spirit. We would once again make friends, explore the world, resurect worlpvp. We would once again be part of the world instead of spaming rdf while sitting in town.
2. A premium token available only in the shop for say 10dp.
Said token once acquired, it could be turned in to an npc in stormspire who would then allow for an item's appearance to be applied to another item of the same kind. This would seriously help towards reviving many dead areas of the game and give many people many hours of gameplay. At the same time it would provide dalaran with donations.

Vwbeetle @ Kirin Tor
Vwbeetle
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
I also have a question.
I like both pve and pvp but this will be pvp related.
How do you see lv80 pvp developing in the seasonal system?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
As far as point 2. I think it adds value by improving replayability of content. Many items will become sought after, people will start consuming dead content and overall players will have more varied things to do.
The caveat here is that I would keep this feature out of the seasons. I would have the seasons clear of "non blizzlike" features. It would be a pretty sweet thing in the "standard league" no doubt .

As far as rdf, man oh man.
I agree with the concept of it and I agree with your take on what it has done to wow.
The issue here is that a good portion of players exist, who are not playing the game - to play the game. They play only for the things that happen at lv 80. They are the target audience for an instant 80 feature. I dont know of a way to pitch this kind of idea to this kind of players.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-11 20:34:24
On lv 80 pvp in a seasonal system.

Up to lv80 all seasonal and standard toons would play together.
At 80 they would split and the portion looking for pvp would do bg and arenas. They would all be fresh 80s and their goal would be to have full wrathful and arena weapons.

The season would be split in "sub wrathful" and "wrathful" portions. Sub wrathful month 1-3 , wrathful month 3-6.
The gear that may be acquired via standard chars would be gated in a way that prevents the use of ilvl items higher or equal to the tier corresponding with the current season progress.
In other words, if the season is in its second month , a char wont be able to use ulduar gear coming via a standard character.
If the season is in its 4th month then said ulduar crafted gear can be equiped and used in arena or bgs.

The 'standard' pool of characters are in no way affected by mechanics related to seasons. Obviously. Those chars go on and exist business as usual pvpin at lv80 only among themselves.

The ilvl restrictions on items , the short span of a season and a close management by the staff of potential exploits would make pvp in a seasonal progression system quite a fair and competitive environment .There will no longer be a situation where the disparity between players will be obscene.
If someone misses the start of a season can just pick up the next one in a few months.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Great meaningful ideas. If only half materialized and it would still be good.
We arent suggesting an instant 80 right?
Just wanna make sure.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Absolutely not.
Was only saying ,in the context of that rdf conversation, that a section of people exists to whom an instant 80 would appeal.
Is those who see no value in anything but lv 80 stuff and would greatly dislike not being able to rdf-spam.

Vwbeetle @ Kirin Tor
Vwbeetle
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
Edited by Vwbeetle on 2019-09-12 18:22:34
Thanks.

Regarding the rdf suggestion , is really unfortunate that most of the content is skipped.
No wonder people complain that "content got stale" .
Is so artificial to just sit in town , click a button and get ported to a random place where you smack mobs to level up.
An instance is supposed to be that stronghold where the leadership of a particular villainous faction resides. Where the player goes on a damn adventure and meets people on the way. Where youd actual have to group up with people that you would need to communicate with.
I mean is just mmorpg 101 , interact with people, play together all that jazz. Rdf contribute at both artificially accelerating the contents consumption and in diluting the overall gameplay feel.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
The seasonal and the standard leagues are distinct environments by scope.
The seasonal league is supposed to be this 'place' where competition happens season after season. Funneling players in the direction of end game makes complete sense.
What if the standard league didnt have rdf until 80?
Lets assume there will be a 50 and the 70 boost available for standard, as valid options.
How would that look?

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-12 19:51:20
Well, then those who seek competition at 80 would absolutely roll seasons. They are the ones who want to streamline the gameplay as much as possible and get to end game so that they may compete there.

The standard league will be a slower environment not catering for and to competitive play at level 80.

The removal of rdf until lv80 in the standard league would not affect the dedicated 'area' where practically all the 'hardcore' players do their deeds, in the sense that in theory they would not be slowed down.

However, since all sub 80 people play together regardless of league (season or standard) and with the removal of rdf for standard until lv 80 - sub 80 seasonal characters will have a smaller pool of toons from where to draw when trying to rdf.
Seasonal toons would not have to option to use boosts , for obvious reasons.
So, if the overall realm population isn't at least at about 1k per faction , I dont see the rdf adjustment viable.

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Well shit, I didnt think of that.
I guess will talk about this again when the realm reaches 2k pop.

Vwbeetle @ Kirin Tor
Vwbeetle
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
Regardless, you have my bow.

Boujii @ Kirin Tor
Boujii

1 Human Paladin
0
I've glanced at most and even read some of these comments. I am still not certain I have a full grasp on this whole thing honestly.

One thing that caught my eye was:
"A really important thing is, no items or achievements would be deleted/lost (although if a player earns an already acquired achievement, it will visually pop, for the shake of the progression feeling)."

I am not sure I understand this really. The thought of me starting over from scratch leans heavy on me. If Wrath content is is closed, where do the items go? Of course I can't forsee using level 80 gear in order to progress through Vanilla or TBC.

I've seen a lot of good ideas though and some comments are quite intriguing.
Do I really want to start over from level 1 and run the hoops all over again? I really only have 2 good toons on here. But I have put a lot of time and work into them.

I seen some posts about the Vanilla/TBC content being overlooked at part of this whole thing. While I can't say for sure if it's neglect or just the lack of developers is the cause. I would sway more towards the lack of developers. The trinity core database is still being updated as of recent. But it's not always easy to apply them to an already pre-existing realm. You would almost be better to just create an new realm completely using a fresh database and then either import the pre-existing characters or start from scratch completely.

I mean lets look at Ruby Sanction. How long did it finally take to hit here? While it probably existed in the existing core database long ago. It's actually harder to "fix" then start new. A new core database and core C++ would probably fix the majority of things that are still broken. Things I have seen in the bug tracker have been fixed ages ago and already applied to the core and database. But applying them fixes to a pre-existing isn't so simple as one would think.

I really can't say for sure if I am against or for the second era thing as I haven't still got a full grasp on it and it's impact. But I wouldn't be against completely fresh core and database and definitely a website revamp.

Starting from scratch as a level one with nothing wouldn't sadden me so much if what I joined was actually working and fresh. And by fresh I mean not just clearing the character database and leaving the rest as it is. Fresh to me is a brand new core and database and website where the most current updates and fixed are already applied.

As other have mentioned we also need to entice new players to want to come and stay. Sever population I feel is the biggest impact honestly. Sitting in queues forever is depressing and discouraging. If everyone starts from level 1 and a fresh and working realm might bring back some of that lost luster we desperately need. Don't get me wrong, when the thought of losing everything and starting over first came to mind I said "I'd quit". But the more I type, the more i realize that only because of the amount of work I put into my toons. But I have also played on servers that have closed down completely and yet here I am again.

Boujii @ Kirin Tor
Boujii

1 Human Paladin
0


I started as an item's database developer in wowemu (Vanilla 1.8.0) and then progressed to a full database developer and assisted in the Mangos core and database in it's implantation to TBC (2.4.3). Then even more so into the development of the Trinity core database for Wrath. So in all I've been a part of this whole thing from 1.8.2 though 3.3.5.
It really wasn't until recently that I actually even played the game itself. Though I did run my own server from 2005 to 2009. So my actual play time is not as much as most of you which is why the thought of starting over initially didn't set well since I am finally playing the game instead of the other end.

Just think how much player interaction there would be if we all started over from scratch. I remember the glory days of seeing people on my server 10+ years ago interacting with each other and having a grand ole time. Not like I do now sitting in SW or Dala steps. It's actually quite depressing.

Arakis @ Kirin Tor
Arakis

12 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Arakis on 2019-09-13 16:56:21
Bouji man. This seasonal progression suggestion we have here would cover basically all your concerns.

Not only would you be able to start fresh if you so wish, from lv1, but you would also get to keep all your stuff and characters - while continuing to play on the same realm (algalon) along with everyone else.

There is quite a bit to read and you wont grasp it just by glancing over it.
In very short, characters would become split in two leagues.
The seasonal league , where aggressive competition takes place and the standard league which hosts old characters and new characters that do not wish to compete on lv80 stuff.

Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin
0
Edited by Dachia on 2019-09-13 17:48:56
And my ax.

I just wanna circle back to beetle's two points.

I get the pop complication when it comes to the rdf adjustment.

But whats up with the cosmetic token suggestion?
Why shouldnt it be available to all chars regardless of league?
What makes it particularly unwelcome in seasons?
I mean it doesnt 'do' anything , has no practical impact on anything. Is just a cosmetic thing that cant alter any mechanic or gameplay related systems.

Thoraf @ Kirin Tor
Thoraf

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edited by Thoraf on 2019-09-14 22:28:33
Bah my comment must have been removed for mentioning that random server ... Was only responding to someone.
But anyway .. The fuckers there stole our idea!
Our version is much more robust anyway, I went and took a peak.

As for the question on the cosmetic token.
Well yes of course it wouldnt affect anything. However there may be complaints from certain people that it wouldnt be BLiZzLikE blah blah blah and that is some "rp shit" or some other idiotic comments like that.
And those comments would indeed be idiotic since said people cant seem to comprehend the overwhelming positive implications of such an addition.
I would try to avoid any bullshit comments like that if possible and try to make everyone at least content - as mentioned before.

It is a great suggestion , with a very high margin.
Such a small addition with such great return on investment.

Playev @ Kirin Tor
Playev

18 Human Paladin
0
This is gonna be the longest tread ever :) Nice to see players caring about dalawow.
As expected classic hits hard, guilds are crumbling and alot of people are finding new places to have fun.
Thats why i support the idea to change dalawow, make it more fun and attractive while not forgetting about the veterans who made it all happen for so long.
Thats also why i voted no on the second server survey. The idea was and is just to vague for me, same goes for reset.
I understand some people getting bored and that they want to start over maybe get that server first achiev. But is a new server really the answer to that?
I dont see other private servers doing that unless their database got erased or something.
Whats wrong with the server we have? its not overpopulated so no need for a fresh server because of that.
And do people really believe a new server will attract new players? Why would that be...
Do we get a new server then every year? or when the top guilds are bored again?

The ideas in this tread about upgrading the current server seem much more constructive to me. Hard mode leveling, for those who want a challange. Upgrade the webshop, care more about vanilla and tbc content. Sounds all good without doing anything risky.

I bet the plans for what is going to happen are allready written so not sure if any suggestion would help. I would just like to say stick with what you got and make it better.

The biggest competitor is warmane. They have a server solely dedicated to pvp. U can start a fresh 80 char there with 20k gold and free relentless gear. Hop right into the action of pvp wich is linked to their pve servers wich are just like dalawow.
It is very smart of them to do this. It gives loads of casual players the chance to play on a decent gearlvl and more diehard players the change to kill them all.
Thats whats it about isnt it? Playing!!
If dalawow made a dedicated pvp server like that and linked it to algalon and kirin tor we would get bg pops again.
Ofcourse pvp is just a part of this game but its a big part wich will attract pve players aswell.

If u have the resources for a new server this would seem more logical to me if your goal is to let the population grow and improve gameplay.

whatever you will do gl with it

Serenna @ Kirin Tor
Serenna

7 Night Elf Warrior
0
Edited by Serenna on 2019-09-14 15:10:01
Still looking for some kind of confirmation on whether fixes are applied to all instances and raids or only to some.

Bumbmbmbmbmb @ Kirin Tor
Bumbmbmbmbmb
1 Human Mage
0
Edited by Bumbmbmbmbmb on 2019-09-15 13:00:15
Here is the thing, none of what you guys are suggesting even addresses the actual problems with Dalaran-wow. Absolutely nothing about the "Second-Era" will fix or address the actual problems that have led to us playing on what is now a server on life support.

Sure you can give people something else to do by making them re-run all the content, putting ilvl restrictions on everything blah blah blah.. I'm only going to put in a small two cents worth here, in regards to the forced progression, Heroics were never linked to Raids. In other words, one should not need to unlock ICC to do HOR, POS, TOC etc heroics. Also to be honest you should put something in the donation shop to just unlock the raids for those who don't want to be bothered unlocking them on 10 characters, consider it a revenue source, just make it a reasonable price.

As for the PVP unless you are going to put in some sort of forced faction balancing system, you are never going to fix it. But that would even be hard to implement as there are far too many inactive characters. Bout the only option you would have is to implement non-factional battlegrounds. This would mean you queue and the server places you on one side or the other, So yes there would be horde fighting horde and alliance fighting alliance, or even combined alliance and horde groups fighting other alliance and horde groups. This is the only thing that would make those queues start popping again.

I see a lot of people sitting there thinking "Classic" hit us hard, fact of the matter is many people were leaving prior to the release of classic. In fact since the launch of Classic i can honestly say nothing has changed in the economy, the bgs, wintergrasp, arena and we still have about the same amount of people logged in at most times. However if i was to use the economy as a meter the actual low point started 2-3 months ago, I won't go into the abundant details of how i know.

Now the main problems with this server, or at least the reasons people have given to me as to why they are quitting and going to play on other servers. The two main reasons that people give me when i ask them why they are quitting is that they don't care for it being a open PVP server and the toxicity that runs rampant among the remaining population of the server. Quite honestly, they get sick of trying to form a raid and having a couple bozo's who feel like getting their jollies coming up and creating chaos, they don't care to have some level 80 horde who makes an alliance alt to see where all the lvl 1-60's are currently leveling at and then taking their level 80 over there to gank them, corpse camp them, graveyard camp them. Trust me i can name a few, verified by watching them log their 80's in and out when the level 30 that they are trying to grief logs in and out (10 times in 3 minutes is the record). So the obvious solution here would be to turn off world PVP at least people would have the chance to actually enjoy the PVE content that happens to be the only thing keeping this server alive currently. Far as the toxicity, hopefully getting quite a few GM's recruited will fix that problem, i guess it just depends on how much teeth the GM's are given in order to deal with it. Quite frankly, i quit doing RDF, because i ran into too many disgusting players that were allowed to run rampant no matter how many complaints are filed with GM's against these people by any number of other players.



Dachia @ Kirin Tor
Dachia
1 Human Paladin